Are the numbers too high?

[Rydin]

It would at least be a "Working as intended, however we will continue to monitor feedback." post. :]

I hope.

True....
I'd like to see a post from someone responsible for the formulae... maybe not giving exact numbers.... but the reasoning or theories that explain why Base stats completely trump all gear

[Jinko]

True....
I'd like to see a post from someone responsible for the formulae... maybe not giving exact numbers.... but the reasoning or theories that explain why Base stats completely trump all gear

Agreed, think the community devs are strike :P, not seen em post in days.

[Estellios]

Long thread so I only skimmed but I don't think anyone brought up the fact that stats in old games capped at 255 because hexadecimal values only go up to that (er.. its either 255 or 256) and keeping values in that range saves space since its only 1 value the game has to store... or something like that. It wasn't any kind of conscious design decision by them at all besides the fact that they wanted to save space.

Anyways, the numbers we have now are fine. When we get into Disgaea stats is when we should start worrying.

[Rydin]

By PSX releases (FFVII onward), space saving hex values weren't needed anymore

This thread had a lot of numbers in it... and we debate those back and forth
But the core of the issue is mental... its philosophy
a few questions sum it all up

1. Do people prefer seeing bigger numbers?
i.e MOB A has a million hit points and you hit him for 9999 per swing
MOB B has 10k hit points and you hit him for 100 per swing
Exact same end result but do people see bigger numbers and feel greater satisfaction because of it?

2. A question of Balance. Should the people who have tons of time and opportunity to get the very best gear have a significant advantage over those who cant... a slight advantage or a hardly noticeable advantage?
Thats a huge loaded question. People start talking about casual vs hardcore.. Elitist attitudes... gear snobs...

If I said I had the absolute, be-all-end-all answer to that question then I would be the most pretentious douche ever
There really is no right answer. How much should gear help you? What should it be worth?
I have my preference but I am in no way right or wrong... Thats what "preference" means.
I personally feel that the harder something is to obtain... the more it should reward you
Then you get into the question of "What is harder... getting to 50 or getting the best gear?"

6 million people bought Final Fantasy XIII.... are we saying only the people with serious amounts of time on their hands should get to enjoy this game? At that point you alienate a very LARGE part of the population. But without long term goals and big rewards, It is hard to keep people interested

Should the hardcore players (And ultimately, their achievements) be the carrot on a stick that keeps the casual players logging in every week?

A the end of the day... all I can really say is what I prefer...
I am NOT saying stats are broken... I am NOT saying the formulae are incorrect or even poorly done.

What I AM saying is I would prefer if gear played a larger role in how powerful or effective we are in battle.
No percentages.... no examples.... just straight theory...
Thats what this is....
Sure... Kaeko... yea.. we don't understand all of the formulae
But you don't have to understand it all to recognize that you prefer a change
If the weathered Spear did the EXACT same damage as the Ifrit Harpoon on EVERY MOB no matter what.... Even without fully understanding the formula... you'd recognize that this doesn't seem ideal.

I don't need to know the entire formula to know that I want to notice a difference when I equip different pieces of gear...

Yes it is preference but I want to see a difference between wearing an Ifrit Harpoon and Cobalt chain stuff vs an Ifrit Harpoon and Mythril Chain stuff. I want to be able to see the difference... even with a cursory glance

But in the end.. I speak for no one but myself

[Zdenka]

Long thread so I only skimmed but I don't think anyone brought up the fact that stats in old games capped at 255 because hexadecimal values only go up to that (er.. its either 255 or 256)

its 256 numbers, but 0 is one of them so it goes to 255 or 2^8.


As far as "nakid" ifrits, I don't believe anyone has beat it fully nakid with L1 weapons... everyone just uses top end weapons which are worth ~85% of the damage you output since 1 DMG on the weapon is worth some ridiculous amount of atk.

Also FFXI was also a gradual increase per gear item, it never felt like you were oh so much better with one of the uber gear items; but rather just marginally better.

TBH gear upgrades in FFXIV feel like more of a "jump" in damage than FFXI's ever did. Also if you want to feel like you jump up in damage with every upgrade we'll be doing 20,000 damage a hit in a year or so like WoW which isn't exactly what you want I think I got out of the thread?

[Estellios]

Well after melding all my gear and double-melding some pieces i have definitely noticed a difference in my character's abilities. Grinding company leves on my CNJ with my current gear versus my old gear, I don't pay attention to the numbers but it takes 3 nukes to kill something vs. 4 or 5 like it used to, and it doesn't seem to be much but it does add up and is MP saved over time. After I finished melding my Archer gear I noticed myself clearing the bonus conditions for the "kill race" leves (killing 4 of each enemy instead of 2) with 2-3 minutes to spare on average whereas before I was constantly cutting it close with 30 seconds on the clock or so.

It just feels like improving your gear is more incremental instead of huge jumps, which is how it should work imo.

[Rydin]

Well after melding all my gear and double-melding some pieces i have definitely noticed a difference in my character's abilities. Grinding company leves on my CNJ with my current gear versus my old gear, I don't pay attention to the numbers but it takes 3 nukes to kill something vs. 4 or 5 like it used to, and it doesn't seem to be much but it does add up and is MP saved over time. After I finished melding my Archer gear I noticed myself clearing the bonus conditions for the "kill race" leves (killing 4 of each enemy instead of 2) with 2-3 minutes to spare on average whereas before I was constantly cutting it close with 30 seconds on the clock or so.

It just feels like improving your gear is more incremental instead of huge jumps, which is how it should work imo.

And thats the feeling I want... to just feel like I'm doing more damage when I upgrade and it not be a placebo effect
Let me ask you this, though
Could shaving 2 minutes off your time possibly be that you're getting better (And not your stats)? or just pure luck?

[Estellios]

And thats the feeling I want... to just feel like I'm doing more damage when I upgrade and it not be a placebo effect
Let me ask you this, though
Could shaving 2 minutes off your time possibly be that you're getting better (And not your stats)? or just pure luck?

Sometimes it's pure luck (its rare but sometimes the game just will not pop that last enemy you need) but I have done a lot of these guildleves before melding materia and after melding my materia, and on average I got much faster so it isn't just me getting better. Especially with CNJ since there really isn't much to manaburning. Kaeko has posted in this thread already and he's always tested out stats and stuff and there have already been tons of tests done with results that yes, stats do work now, so there are numbers to back it up.

[Turtle]

At the same time, the stat numbers are comparible to the damage done/received/HP of you/mobs. doing 9999 dmg on FF games is pretty common and I like that this game is trying that out. Or maybe I'm just a numbers junkie.

[Coglin]

No matter what everyone says, I keep getting stuck on the fact that I can breeze through all the endgame content just as well in my underwear as I can in "top end" gear. With little difference in the experience.

I mean, we can talk about stats, there effects, and workings untill we are blue in the face. The fact that Fully geared, or naked, makes minimul difference.