My Long Overdue Eureka Topic

[Hyperia]

Hopefully we will see some really well throughout adjustments to Pagos. I am hoping for these adjustments because as it stands now, I will not be able to do Pyros without them. I am not asking for something for nothing, I want to put in my effort sure, but I also don't like RNG x RNG x RNG. Just one layer of RNG, two layers for something that is godly special, but three layers is excessive and worthy of the discourse that has been raised.

[Azper]

Pretty much hit every nail on the head. This is the first relic I couldn't stomach and had to abandon entirely. The reward (glamour be damned) just wasn't worth the effort to me. I can only hope that a lack of participation in both Pagos and Pyros will open their eyes that this isn't the type of content a majority of us want or support. I cannot find even one redeeming quality with Pagos—and Pyros looks to be an even bigger catastrophic dumpster fire of RNG.

[Aster_E]

Pretty much hit every nail on the head. This is the first relic I couldn't stomach and had to abandon entirely. The reward (glamour be damned) just wasn't worth the effort to me. I can only hope that a lack of participation in both Pagos and Pyros will open their eyes that this isn't the type of content a majority of us want or support. I cannot find even one redeeming quality with Pagos—and Pyros looks to be an even bigger catastrophic dumpster fire of RNG.

I'm sure I missed out on a few points, even, including but not limited to the lack of internal party finding or the lack of daily quests or objectives, optional ones, to add a little flavor or variety to the experience. At this point, though, those things would be sauce or garnish compared to the messy dish that is Eureka.

[Banim]

I don't mind Eureka and can find enjoyment in it but it certainly is terribly designed. The thing that annoys me the most is certainly the lack of party level sync. That's a feature that has existed in FFXI for the longest time with its potato systems and UIs, yet XIV's slightly less potato systems and UIs can't produce this feature?

[Cidel]

Pretty good in-depth write-up about the flaws of Pagos and the underlying problems with the development team and their content production. Pretty much all points you bring up are valid and sound. Even though at this point I think we all know what we don't like about Pagos, it's good to see the flaws catalogued together this way with explanations articulated better than "is bad. hate map. not doing it. lul."

Pagos (and that extends to Eureka as a whole) is a pretty big eye-opener to what the devs consider "entertaining" to players... Or that they threw as many time-consuming factors into the content (grinding, RNG, overly-convoluted efficiency, and slowing player progress at as many outlets as possible) all for the purpose of keeping players from consuming it faster than they'd like, for a "reward" that holds little to no relevance outside of glamour (if it even appeals to you) and "permission" to proceed in future additions. I'm going to quote Noodle_Trinidad from another thread who spoke about Pagos because I find a lot of truth in it:

Pagos itself is an issue indicative of the Dev's interpretation,or lack thereof, of the Player's feedback from its original predecessor, Diadem, and its first implementation, Anemos. Nothing so far has shown that they have listened to the players and double downed on the most frustrating systems that the players hate... It added nothing new and everytime it has been released most of its gear is irrelevant making the gear just glorified glam that you grind longer than you ever would Savage for. It simply doesnt respect a person's time, social interactions or fingers, the map is the least of its problems.

I also remember a fairly heated discussion in another thread here (think it was about someone's friend quitting and their laundry list of issues with the direction (or lack of) of the game). Eventually, the argument somehow led to Pagos being "the devs attempt at trying something new, it failed, so they should never ever try anything new ever again. Give me back my 3rd dungeon."

I find that whole notion ridiculous.

The devs didn't try anything new with Pagos/Anemos. If anything, you could make a marginal argument for the Magiaboard; which on a practical level, all it has done was allow absent-minded tanks to be 2-3-shotted by a mob's auto-attacks or mobs to die albeit slower until it dawns on DPS they haven't changed their elements since the last FATE. Pagos is actually more of a giant wad of spit-balled things that are already done (many ad nauseam) since ARR that were balled-into a new zone and they stood back and see what the players do with it. We're still running FATEs. We're still killing unremarkable trash mobs- now with absurdly high HP values and in hopes of spawning FATEs. We're still getting disappointed with Treasure "bunny" maps. We're still dealing with RNG-gated progression. We're still trading-in lootboxes. None of this was "new."

I look ahead to Pyros in just a short while and I am incredibly skeptical and critical of what they have done (as everyone has every right to be). What I have read about it thus far doesn't reassure me on its own; The logos system, as vague as it is until we try it, just seems like either something of a band-aid for groups that don't have a tank or healer, or another way for devs to do things like: "this boss will wipe everyone not equipped with this logos; go farm it," not unlike Magiaboard elements. And now they are doubling-down on RNG-based stats for our relics/rewards; the telltale sign of artificially-extending life of something by making us repeat it over-and-over, frustrations be damned.

You know you done-goofed when your playerbase looks at upcoming content with caution and cynicism rather than excitement.

[Aster_E]

Upon reading up on the patch notes regarding Pyros, I'm so very glad I will not be online to witness this. I can't say, in December, that I will even be writing up about Pyros. I knew my write-up, even if I made it back in September, would have changed nothing about what's coming, but now it's all been said. I am so sorry, everyone, about this farce of content we're being shovel-fed.

[Acidblood]

I stopped doing Eureka a few weeks after it came out, as by then the design flaws were glaringly obvious*, and I had no desire to watch Netflix for 2-3 days to 'get it done'... And for what? So I could do the same again in Pagos? And again in Pyros?

So well done, and well said, and I only hope that the team at SE do take something from all this because if doubling down on poorly designed content is going to be the future of FFXIV then I need to find a new MMO.

* I held out hope for a while that the early feedback would be acted upon, that the initial state of Eureka was just an 'experiment' to tested and tuned, but once Pagos hit I knew it was over, Eureka was meant to be the way it was (edit: minus the NM train), and for me that meant it (and the Relic gear it held hostage) was dead content.

[Aster_E]

So Pyros is indeed bad, it is sounding like, and also based on the patch notes. Folks, everyone, save yourselves.

[LineageRazor]

I definitely agree that Pagos was a big step in the wrong direction for Eureka. It does, indeed, feel like the Devs saw the way folks were handling Anemos and said to themselves, "The players aren't having fun the way we want them to! We will FORCE them to play the content as intended!" I agree, as well, that Pagos wasn't as gorgeous as Anemos was, but it's certainly not ugly.

The fact that relic weapons are a grueling grind to get - that, I don't have a problem with. It was what I was expecting from Relics. I did two in ARR, and hated myself so much for doing three in HW that I vowed to do only one in SB - and doing one was just about the correct level of effort that I was looking for. I don't feel as though SE should feel any obligation to cater to folks who want to make four, six, or more Relics; those folks should know from previous expansions what they're in for (at least, if they did them when the content was fresh, and not when the Relic process was nerfed into practically nothing).

The fact that Pagos feelies are also a grueling grind to get, I'm less comfortable with. The hoops a player has to jump through to collect a nostalgic, beloved eyesore like the O-Hat is simply obnoxious.

A lot of people had problems with Anemos, but I wasn't one of them. My only beef was the lack of elemental level sync, as it meant that I'd never be able to help my buddies (who don't play as voraciously as I do) with the content - and, as a result, they gave the content a pass. Pagos, I still managed to enjoy, even at its worst, but I could sure see why folks would be frustrated by it.

As for Pyros...

So Pyros is indeed bad, it is sounding like

Only if that's the verdict you're searching for. Folks in the So, how is Pyros? thread who actually bother to write more than a short sentence seem to be indicating that it's a step up from Pagos. The worst criticism I've seen so far is that the monsters are ridiculously densely packed - which can actually be a boon if you're trying to chain them. Some players are comparing the layout of the map favorably to Anemos.

While I've yet to try the new content myself, I'm cautiously optimistic. It's a shame that Pagos is still in the way of folks who want to participate, but even Pagos isn't quite as bad as it used to be.

[Deceptus]

The fact that relic weapons are a grueling grind to get - that, I don't have a problem with. .

Here's why I do.

Relics are always behind what is currently
1) The Best equipment in the game (raids At 405)
2) Tome equipment (390 weapons unlocked last week and Pyros weapons are 385)

Why would you grind for weeks on end for something that is outdated the day it releases?

There is ZERO incentive to do that other than glamour.