Let’s discuss Dancer

[miraidensetsu]

The issue I see there is that the support healers have to have enough healing to deal with all none 'high level' duties which means they have to have fairly strong healing kits to deal having two 'support healers' in 24 mans and the like which raises the risk that two support healers played at a high level would be fine for all content which would make the two meant for main healing pretty redundant.

Well, I think that it should work with a trade-off system. If a DNC/AST use their resources healing, it shouldn't have enough resources to buff. If a WHM use their resources buffing, he won't have enough resources to heal.

But thinking it better, to that idea work, AST should gain heavy nerfs on the sects. Aspected Benefic and Aspected Helios should lose the regen/shield effect to add a haste on allies (diurnal) or a slow to enemies (nocturnal) using some other spells, CU should have a MP cost and a much bigger cooldown and Earthly Star have its healing potency halved... To gain a sure way to apply a 20% Balance, some Haste, some Slow, a chance to apply Stop and some other tricks held by Time Mages. And I doubt S-E will ever do this to their babies.

Forget it. The idea was indeed crazy.

[Connor]

I’d much rather see Dancer as a fully support oriented healer rather than the standard DPS/healer hybrid. We already have three healers whose main job is to minimise minimise healing and maximise damage output. I really feel like something new is needed.

I feel like the dev team is capable of fitting that kind of job into the current setup without causing too many issues. And even in the event that it did release under/over powered, it wouldn’t be the first time a job has been released without being balanced properly lol

[Mansion]

The problem is that "support oriented" jobs are all thought and built in regards to FFXIV main idea that each job is made to down content anyway. Having a dancer too buff oriented would almost surely steal one healer spot (like SCH currently does for other reasons).
Then you'd add Bard's buffs multpiplied by Dragoon's multiplied by Astro's, multiplied by Dancer, Synchronized with a Ninja's trick attack and there you have it. 5.0 meta.

I'm not against the idea, I'm actually craving for more addition to healer's kit (DPS or buff, or if it comes to that, fights that actually require more healing). But it needs much consideration in jobs synergies before hand. The fact that some buffs multiply (MCH / NIN vuln down, SCH BRD DRG crit up) and that some don't (AST cards, shields) makes it even more sensible.

[Jollyy5]

I'd like for dancer to have a melee combo, a buff to convert some damage dealt into AoE healing, maybe a weak heal that can be used from a range, and stronger heal that you need to physically slap on people, supplemented by dashing and backstepping.

Sure it would be essentially doing the same thing as the other healers in that it will balance healing and DPS, but it'd at least go about it differently.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

I dunno. Who would want a healer who needs standing next to someone for healing when you can have the same thing from the distance? Sure, you can moderate this with some flashy in-and-out-animation but it still means going right into the danger zone or running around from one end of the arena to another - just to heal two dudes and not because of mechanics - which makes him way inferior to the other healers.

[tinythinker]

The more I think about it, the weapon doesn't need to be any one thing. As you dance, you could trace out the rhythmic dance ribbon from the crystal microphone/dagger with "light painting", and from the sides, you could unfold the "dagger" to be a fan of light/aether. The weapon could change depending on spell and action

If ribbons become a thing for DNC, it would be cool if the limit break would include something like threads or many ribbons of light come down from the sky (think aerial silk).

I am personally hoping for dancer to look like traditional chinese long sleeve dancers.

I'd like for dancer to have a melee combo, a buff to convert some damage dealt into AoE healing, maybe a weak heal that can be used from a range, and stronger heal that you need to physically slap on people, supplemented by dashing and backstepping.

Sure it would be essentially doing the same thing as the other healers in that it will balance healing and DPS, but it'd at least go about it differently.

{Thought I had posted in an old thread about healer speculation in response to someone else but I can't find it - wasn't on dancer but a general concept about gaining power from damaging enemies that is then used to heal or buff. Darn. Will forget most of it and it had some good details/ideas for limits that made the the job a fun minigame. Oh, and for those who were thinking hybdrid, Yoshi-P said TP was going away at the Vegas Fanfest.}

My idea coincides with the above quotes. For damage you are mostly melee/near melee. You dance in and attack by drawing spells with your movement. If my WHM can run in and Holy at melee range, a DNC can jump in and do their thing. This is how you charge up the DNC job gauge. Like RDM and DRG you have a flip/jump/tumble backward ability. You can do simple basic heals at range without the gauge, but to "power-up" and do DNC-specific special moves you must fill the gauge.

These special moves can be long, medium, or short-range and can include:

- one or two special heal or mitigation techniques
- a couple of party buffs and a massive enemy debuff
- faster recharge of the job's oGCD heals

Absorbing health from enemies and redistribute it to allies constantly can get OP, so there is also a mechanic like overheating from MCH. You can ramp up and got lights out, but then you have a cool-down on the gauge. Or you can take it to the edge and back off. At lower levels, it's easier to play but at end-game it takes better management and knowledge of fights for best effect.

What particular special moves would you prefer in such a mechanic if it existed?

[tinythinker]

What particular special moves would you prefer in such a mechanic if it existed?

Ran out of characters.

To give a sense of what I mean, there is a trash pull. The DNC runs to the outer edge of melee range and used Ability A - he weaves forward doing damage as the aethertrail of his weapons (sleeves, ribbons, fans) slices through anything in his path (similar to some SAM animations but he keeps moving forward. The job gauge fills some.

Now on the other side of the trash pull, a different move. The players moves forward into the middle of the pack and uses Ability B, causing the character to to twirl higher and higher with the aether ribbons (again, trailing whatever weapons) whip around him until he reaches the pinnacle of the move and slams back down stunning the mobs. The job gauge is fuller.

Sensing danger the player tumbles out of melee range with Ability C. Standing at medium range, the dancer spins once in place throwing out a slice of aether energy that hits the mob pack, though this spammable does less damage. Using some energy from the job gauge, the dancer throws out a particular strong oGCD heal to the tank as an aethertrail wraps around her, then a party-wide buff as aether-silks fall from above.

Reversing the idea

So the previous comment and above illustration is healing/buffing by doing damage. It could even be automatic, like you do some damage and it send out healing energy (again this would be regulated by the overheat mechanic).

But, this could all be reversed. You heal to damage. So those moves described above earned by filling the job gauge as you heal. The problem here is that it encourages overhealing at the start of an encounter and makes damage too dependent on healing. By having a few fun damage moves as per the story above, you unlock extra buffs and heals or other effects, but you always have your most essential stock heals and one or two stock damage abilities no matter what. Yes, having fun attack moves on the gauge instead limits their use so that DNC can't just try to be a dps, but, they can be priced too high to be spammed constantly similar to how you need Thin Air and/or Lucid Dreaming to spam Holy.

[Rollout]

Given that they're going to use Mind for the primary stat, if they are a healer, I imagine them using something more like fans or maybe even sashes/scarves.

I also think it would be interesting to see them as some sort of channeled healer. Their dances begin instantly and they have to hold still while they danced, with their cast bar starting full and draining down. As they dance, they apply small benefits, or a small amount of rapidly ticking healing, followed by a bigger effect at the conclusion of their dance.

[PatronasCharm]

Idk, I can't picture a Dancer as a healer, maybe I need to think outside the box more; I'll have to look it up on the Wiki too, to see its styles in past FF games: but sadly the only memory for DNC in an FF Game I've have is from FFXI; which I found to be a fun support job.

If anything, I'd actually like it to sort of be like that; a DPS with a dagger that shares gear with Ninja.

I made a little concept of how I imaged it being, it's below on my signature. But again I'm not against it being healer or any other role to be honest, I'd just be happy to see it in the game

[Raikai]

Ran out of characters.

To give a sense of what I mean, there is a trash pull. The DNC runs to the outer edge of melee range and used Ability A - he weaves forward doing damage as the aethertrail of his weapons (sleeves, ribbons, fans) slices through anything in his path (similar to some SAM animations but he keeps moving forward. The job gauge fills some.

Now on the other side of the trash pull, a different move. The players moves forward into the middle of the pack and uses Ability B, causing the character to to twirl higher and higher with the aether ribbons (again, trailing whatever weapons) whip around him until he reaches the pinnacle of the move and slams back down stunning the mobs. The job gauge is fuller.

Sensing danger the player tumbles out of melee range with Ability C. Standing at medium range, the dancer spins once in place throwing out a slice of aether energy that hits the mob pack, though this spammable does less damage. Using some energy from the job gauge, the dancer throws out a particular strong oGCD heal to the tank as an aethertrail wraps around her, then a party-wide buff as aether-silks fall from above.

Reversing the idea

So the previous comment and above illustration is healing/buffing by doing damage. It could even be automatic, like you do some damage and it send out healing energy (again this would be regulated by the overheat mechanic).

But, this could all be reversed. You heal to damage. So those moves described above earned by filling the job gauge as you heal. The problem here is that it encourages overhealing at the start of an encounter and makes damage too dependent on healing. By having a few fun damage moves as per the story above, you unlock extra buffs and heals or other effects, but you always have your most essential stock heals and one or two stock damage abilities no matter what. Yes, having fun attack moves on the gauge instead limits their use so that DNC can't just try to be a dps, but, they can be priced too high to be spammed constantly similar to how you need Thin Air and/or Lucid Dreaming to spam Holy.

In theory your idea of this playstyle is amazing... But in practice, with bosses telegraphed attacks being such a convoluted web, I don't know, it would had to be tested a lot to see if it works under extreme situations.