Would you raid if there was no ilvl?

[Antonio_Xul]

To me, it's not the iLevel that keeps me away from raiding, but the raiders themselves, plus I don't have time to schedule my play time. I play when I want, not when others want. I have the patience to learn, but not the patience for rude jackasses who get angry at every little mistake in learning parties. It's called a learning party for a reason. Some people learn fast, others don't. I have patience for those still learning, even the slow ones.

[Amethyst_Esp]

To me, it's not the iLevel that keeps me away from raiding, but the raiders themselves, plus I don't have time to schedule my play time. I play when I want, not when others want. I have the patience to learn, but not the patience for rude jackasses who get angry at every little mistake in learning parties. It's called a learning party for a reason. Some people learn fast, others don't. I have patience for those still learning, even the slow ones.

Definitely this. I'd like to try the savage raids but whenever I do try, there's always one or two people who will rudely point out mistakes and begin yelling at everyone then after the second wipe, they'll leave then everyone else will follow and I'm back at square one after accomplishing nothing. I haven't even touched any of the newer savage content yet because my friend and I don't want to deal with elitists who expect everything to be perfect on the first run even if it's a learning party. I'm all for having my mistakes pointed out but there's a right way and a wrong way about it.

[Deithwen]

Definitely this. I'd like to try the savage raids but whenever I do try, there's always one or two people who will rudely point out mistakes and begin yelling at everyone then after the second wipe, they'll leave then everyone else will follow and I'm back at square one after accomplishing nothing. I haven't even touched any of the newer savage content yet because my friend and I don't want to deal with elitists who expect everything to be perfect on the first run even if it's a learning party. I'm all for having my mistakes pointed out but there's a right way and a wrong way about it.

Sure, every raider is an elitist... *rolls eyes*

However, there is a minimum skill level expected in raids, and getting blamed because you don't have that level while raiding is to be expected. But those are mere assumptions.

[MoroMurasaki]

Definitely this. I'd like to try the savage raids but whenever I do try, there's always one or two people who will rudely point out mistakes and begin yelling at everyone then after the second wipe, they'll leave then everyone else will follow and I'm back at square one after accomplishing nothing. I haven't even touched any of the newer savage content yet because my friend and I don't want to deal with elitists who expect everything to be perfect on the first run even if it's a learning party. I'm all for having my mistakes pointed out but there's a right way and a wrong way about it.

I don't mind coming along while you get your feet wet in like o9s or something. My discord is in my signature if you want to reach out.

There are plenty of raiders who aren't like this. PF isnt the most patient place but it also doesn't have to be that bad. The less pugs you've got the better \o/

[azura84]

Definitely this. I'd like to try the savage raids but whenever I do try, there's always one or two people who will rudely point out mistakes and begin yelling at everyone then after the second wipe, they'll leave then everyone else will follow and I'm back at square one after accomplishing nothing. I haven't even touched any of the newer savage content yet because my friend and I don't want to deal with elitists who expect everything to be perfect on the first run even if it's a learning party. I'm all for having my mistakes pointed out but there's a right way and a wrong way about it.

This is a 2.0 argument that has survived over the years and its really not the matchmaking service or the party finder service that's causing problems anymore, it's players lieing. I've recently started doing Savage and Extreme stuff again and I have to say, DF Matchmaking PUGs are always going to be somewhat of a gamble for anyone with low patience (know thyself) BUT so long as you're not being false in your Party Finder description or Duty Finder preparedness there shouldn't be any issues with anyone who joins for clears, It's on us now. Most of those people who join will know exactly how hard the fight is going to be and anyone who's played this game for a year should know the amount of time it can take for players to catch on to mechanics. The DF weeding and PF matchmaking are really very good now so long as you dont lie about your own ability. I'm understanding of people who get upset about others who are not prepared for clear, these people are who get angry are almost always people who have put in the 5+ hours of learning already and when you join a group that claims to be ready at enrage and 4 people die in the first few mechanics it's clear people are just outright lying and that person is in for a lot more work than they bargained for. I'm not saying there is an excuse for being a dick i'm just saying there is usually a good reason for their anger. Ultimately this is a social game and that means interacting with people, people can be awesome but they can be just as awful, you roll the dice sometimes but the developers have come a long way in making this MUCH more reasonable. A good piece of advice: be conservative about your preparedness level and you'll never be disappointed with the party you get.

As for the primary concern of this thread, if you remove item level restrictions it will spell the doom of the current matchmaking. People will be unrestrained which means weeds will hurt que times by being that 1 DPS who isnt geared and then causes the group to fail, and after your party leaves the dungeon because they're incapable of clearing or the tank doesn't have time for it, I just hope you're not the other DPS who's been que'd up for 30+ minutes.

Alternatively I would welcome some kind of "challenge mode" where you enter with an even lower ilvl sync and are asked to defeat the same ex bosses or savage raids, such challenges could reward better with more/better loot. They could branch the dungeons and make them bigger instead of linear, giving us paths to reach certain pieces of gear, bosses that actually provide strain on time limits. There's a lot of things SE could do with the item level and system they have in place, they just need more players to want it but now i'm rambling. No no, don't remove the item level restrictions, that would be madness and there's quite enough of that already.