Trying to understand the negative posts I keep seeing about the Dev Team

[Enla]

So, yeah. I don't trust the development team, nor Yoshi-P. I don't think he nor they have demonstrated an ability to learn from past mistakes, and I think it's long since harmed the quality of FFXIV. That doesn't mean I'm looking to quit, nor does it mean it's a bad game, but the promise of ARR, the foundation laid, has very much been squandered at this point, in my mind. SE will need to produce more than just the occasional 'oh that's nice' moments to earn my trust back. They'll need a sustained run of successful innovation and responsive development.

Honestly I'm not entirely sure it will be possible without shake ups in management within both the XIV team /and/ at the top of Square Enix's corporate structure. Because a look at how SE has been running their other properties shows that many of these issues aren't merely quarantined to XIV.

[Gemina]

OP, I have a similar mindset as you. For the most part, instead of griping about the things I don't like about the game, I tend to appreciate the things I love about it and embrace them. However, I know I am also in the minority because I am one of those players who does not adapt well to change. While a lot of people gripe that SB is just a carbon copy of the previous expansions, I am perfectly ok with that. But I also understand that I haven't been around as long either.

While there are things I continuously praise about the game, there are also things that cause me a great amount of concern. The recent All Saints Wake is a good example. I refused to do it because in short, I already did it. Last year, and the year prior to that. A new minion that I will never summon, and home décor I will never use is not incentive at all. While it is just an event, the amount of laziness that was put into it is indicative of what the devs are currently putting into the game, effort-wise. The event, is a smaller scale version of what is going on with the game as a whole, and I believe this is the biggest gripe from the playerbase.

The playerbase is still paying the same amount of money for a sub, but is not getting the same amount of attention, effort, and HEART from the dev team that their hard earned dollar once paid for. When looking at things from this perspective, I get pissed off just thinking about it. And that is why I cast a bubble around myself and just find the things that make me happy. I am probably the last person that should be responding to this thread.

[azura84]

I think HyoMin nailed down a lot of things, but what frustrates people is that everyone knows this game could be so much more if they just thought things through better. That and their consistent battle to try and make two separate games in one, PVP and PVE.

Their few attempts to try something new with PVE have almost all been catastrophic failures, first with Daidem, then the boring Palace of the Dead, Aquapolis, Lost Canals, Eureka, and Heavens on High all have relatable functionality to what the developers did in XI. This is where I myself become most frustrated because it seems like this team lead by yoshi-p is going out of their way to not look at what XI did right.

1.) Daidem/Eureka are basically something akin to what Abyssea/Dynamis were but they failed because two major reasons: they didn't even attempt a branching and continuing quest tree for equipment which they could have done but they just chose not to and secondly they didn't make any more zones at all for it, they simply abandoned it to gatherers and free company leaders to feed on.

2.)PalaceOTD/HeavenOH- these are the weakest most boring versions of Nyzul/Salvage they could have ever done, zero attempt at alternate objectives or problem solving, just smash smash smash.

3.)Hunts/FATEs- these would be more enjoyable if they provided any kind of difficulty or reward, hunts do slightly but "epic" fates providing only aesthetic rewards have made their beautiful open world a wasteland of disappointment.

The only thing they've done in the past year that I thought was an improvement upon gameplay was Treasure Maps + Aqua/Canals, these actually push players to play with their fellow members in their FC's and LS's instead of relying upon a matchmaking system. Sadly though even this falls by the wayside for most because they don't offer any sort of tangible gear for playing with, just more aesthetic equipment and housing items.

As for the balance issue, I think the biggest problem is that the game has devolved so much that there is no utility and nothing else beyond a single number, damage. Stripping away the diversity of elemental and physical weaknesses that mobs have and providing little use for any need of enmity control, this game has become about damage and that makes people upset when you make it all about 1 number and "my job doesn't do as much as his". Personally I don't care about this balance problem because I know for a fact they make everything (even the savage/extreme content) easy enough for a good group of monks to destroy. (Try playing Thief for 10 years, then we'll talk) They may not do it as fast as a group of BLMs or SMNs but what does that matter if you're able to complete it just with 2-5mins more fighting in and playing what you enjoy. It would be another thing entirely if it was impossible to play with those jobs though, but that isn't the case.

The issue most of us from XI have with XIV is that this is such a better game by design, it's so much prettier cleaner and more flushed out mechanically, but the devs are making it weaker and weaker every year by not seeing any changes through, by playing it safe so as not to invoke a second Dalamud. What the devs don't seem to realize is there just isn't that much competition right now in the MMO arena and when something comes out that does challenge them, they're going to be hurting for that acclaimed 10 million sub crown. I dont want that to happen, I like XIV and I want it to do better! =(

[micropanther7]

Am I the only one who thinks it's the person holding the purse strings who says yay or nay on regarding changes, and not the developers? Sometimes I think the finger of blame is pointed in the wrong direction, is it really the developers that have control/final say on what gets put into the game?

[Lastelli]

Am I the only one who thinks it's the person holding the purse strings who says yay or nay on regarding changes, and not the developers? Sometimes I think the finger of blame is pointed in the wrong direction, is it really the developers that have control/final say on what gets put into the game?

I too think a good chunk of the responsability lies with SE top management. But even if they're not giving ffxiv team enough resources, I still can't close an eye to how the devs are using what little money they get. Diadem? Perform? Eureka? LoV and the neverending endeavor to make PvP relevant? Meanwhile, the core elements of the game keep getting less and less attention.
Do they really think their game is ok and they can afford to waste time and money on side content like this? And do they really think the side content they're offering is good enough?

[micropanther7]

I too think a good chunk of the responsability lies with SE top management. But even if they're not giving ffxiv team enough resources, I still can't close an eye to how the devs are using what little money they get. Diadem? Perform? Eureka? LoV and the neverending endeavor to make PvP relevant? Meanwhile, the core elements of the game keep getting less and less attention.

Oh I know, I was just thinking out loud, meaning that the devs shouldn't get all the flack I definitely think people got cause for complaint, even if I don't do some of the content myself (like pvp for example, and no not even a hairstyle is going to get me in there SE), I agree that core elements need more love.

[azura84]

I too think a good chunk of the responsibility lies with SE top management. But even if they're not giving ffxiv team enough resources, I still can't close an eye to how the devs are using what little money they get. Diadem? Perform? Eureka? LoV and the never ending endeavor to make PvP relevant? Meanwhile, the core elements of the game keep getting less and less attention.
Do they really think their game is ok and they can afford to waste time and money on side content like this? And do they really think the side content they're offering is good enough?

I honestly think it's both the devs and management.

[alimdia]

Am I the only one who thinks it's the person holding the purse strings who says yay or nay on regarding changes, and not the developers? Sometimes I think the finger of blame is pointed in the wrong direction, is it really the developers that have control/final say on what gets put into the game?

Speaking in general, in many games you have one company in charge of the publishing side (this includes hosting the game, the GMs, support, localization, marketing, etc) with a producer at the head, and the developing side (this includes creating the actual content, art, music, assets, bosses, maps, quests, lore, etc) with a director of development at the head.

FFXIV being a self published game means all of that is handled by a single company, but there's something special with FFXIV where the head of development and the head of publishing is the same person, producer and director Naoki Yoshida, so as far as content direction goes he's the person pulling the strings and everything has to go through his approval. If you watch interviews of other FFXIV team members or that one noclip documentary they mention how much of the decision making goes through Yoshida, and if he requests something the team tries to make it happen, even if it means changing the planned story. For example I remember reading it was Yoshida that requested this expansion to also focus on the far east when the original plan was Gyr Abania.

Now on the money topic, FFXIV is still subject to a budget from the parent company (Square Enix) which means Yoshida himself cannot control how much of the money that goes from FFXIV into SE comes back to FFXIV, he can only make requests. And the marketing I mentioned on the publishing side usually also works with management from the company and doesn't answer just to Yoshida, so the producer doesn't exactly have full control on how the money is spent, but he can make requests, those requests likely take into account things like return of investment and other areas of the game that also need to make use of the budget. Just speaking here how it usually works in other companies, I don't know if that's exactly how it works here.

Ultimately with a job title comes some responsibilities and accountability, which is why high staff positions are paid so much. You're accountable for anything people under you do or don't do even if it's not your fault, and this is the case of someone with the producer or the director of a project. Securing funds for infrastructure is the job of the producer. The fiasco that was Pagos is overseen by the director.

On the infrastructure we don't know if the producer has been trying and management is just not approving funds for that, or that the producer doesn't recognize it as a problem and isn't focusing on it. We're left in the blind here. But on development I don't think management has anything to do with how poorly received has been the latest content.

[azura84]

Ultimately with a job title comes some responsibilities and accountability, which is why high staff members are paid so much. You're accountable for anything people under you do or don't do even if it's not your fault, and this is the case of someone with the producer or the director of a project. Securing funds for infrastructure is the job of the producer..

and why Tanaka was asked to step down after 1.0

[Shurrikhan]

and why Tanaka was asked to step down after 1.0

I mean, it's hard to say that Tanaka was asked to resign for not securing sufficient funds, or reasonably imply that Yoshida replaced him for being more demanding, when Tanaka was replaced after repeatedly taking up issues of staff size, funding, and the forced rushed release, with Yoshida then entering with no such immediate deadlines, greatly increased funding, and an enlarged staff....

Tanaka failed; sure. But, it wasn't any accomplishment of Yoshida's to have overcome those hurdles as a producer should; they were concessions finally made with his installment.

If you watch noclip's documentary it's very clear there were major flaws in the way Tanaka was handling the team, even if they don't name him. Every team was doing their own thing with very little interaction with each other, and the team only had experience with FFXI, no one seemed interested in actually researching what's the MMO market like for modern MMOs. It was a recipe for failure even if the endless bugs weren't there.

While the original devs were busy spamming for a party to grind in XI WoW had already reshaped the genre and changed what people expect from a MMO.

Again, I'm not saying Tanaka didn't fail to meet the requirements of a project leader, let alone a producer. It was bad. But when a company is finally forced to admit its failings, known and complained of for a year prior, and finally induces the necessary funds, the producer they attach to that injection shouldn't be credited for that injection itself as if s/he'd somehow won the company over to the idea of really funding the game. Company reputation itself pushed that difference -- to the point they could no longer stonewall complaints. And at that point what mattered most at that exact moment about the producer was only that they were not Tanaka.

Perhaps -- even likely -- another producer would have secured funding sooner. Certainly there are other producers who could have made better use of their team, even as limited as it was. But the one person who cannot be credited one way or the other for securing funds is whoever arrived only after or precisely with those funds.

Let's give credit only where it's due, not for changes for which the credited was not in any control.