SCH needs some nerfs

[Jinzhu]

You should remember what they did to WHM and fluid aura then, taking away all damage and only leaving knock back. How is this skill use full in raids where everything is resistant to knockback and sleep is also useless as it is resistant to sleep? They also took away stoneskin and stoneskin II and made 5 of its skills role skills. My WHM hotbar is about 2/3rds the size of my SCH hotbar, not even counting the fairy one. I actually laughed maining WHM when they said hotbars are bloated at Fanfast, as I have all of WHM on 2 and before SB it was into 3.

Toning down Energy Drain wouldn't change SCH as much as some are saying if it loses its power as you get higher in levels. It is a level 6 skill and most actually do, which I guess doesn't happen to WHM as it doesn't have a level 6 skill anymore with it moved to role actions.

Gutting a main mechanic in a job isn't how you should nerf it. Just because SE screwed up with WHM doesn't mean they have to screw up with SCH and AST. People like to overvalue SCH when it's kit revolves around losing damage to gain healing. Where as ASTs kit does more healing without any loss of damage and can do more damage than SCH. WHM is the odd one out with a kit that doesn't flow well within itself. It's main gimmick revolves around using healing GCDs which is a thing you try to avoid in FFXIV. Doesn't help that Fluid Aura doesn't do damage and is basically useless. Asylum forces you to stand in a small area and much more that I got more in depth in an upcoming video i'm making. WHMs kit is so lackluster that you actually end up avoiding using abilities like Divine Benison because your oGCD space is very limited and has a small window to line up with Aero 2. Another problem is that 9/10 times you will not using Assize for healing because the damage you gain from using it under raid buffs is much stronger than misaligning it so you better pray damage is coming out relatively close to it's use.

[Shurrikhan]

Welp, I think this is a good thread to come back from my vacation with.

I'm not going to say that there aren't problems in the relationship between WHM and AST, there are. If AST is sitting at 100% (a good place in balance) WHM is around 80%... but that difference is eclipsed by SCH being at 150%.

1. Chain Stratagem is consistent, strong and synergizes amazingly with the crit-meta.
2. Critlo/spreadlo are the strongest shields you can have and have only benefited from the role action changes in 4.4 - they can now be deployed off of a WAR with Convo and Minne on by a SCH using Largesse and neither of those classes sacrifices anything to do so.
3. Indom is perhaps the single best heal in the game. It costs almost nothing, is more flexible than ES by a mile and is instant.
4. Their pDPS is ridiculous by comparison and they have unlimited weaving opportunities with basically no need to clip.

Essentially the only time SCH is disadvantaged in any way is in prolonged AoE healing situations which honestly should be taken care of more by their regen-healer partner anyway.

This is not balance within the healer community. No one healer should provide the best pDPS and (more often than not) rDPS while also having such a flexible defensive kit that can easily be tweaked to handle almost any situation.

Thoughts?

1. If not already (which is damn near impossible to tell without dozens of pure samples recorded in tests specifically for this), Critical Hit and Direct Hit stats ought to diminish in the same way that Skill Speed and Spell Speed have, providing the same relative value increase between their increased damage multiplier chance and damage multiplier bonus such that 2000 of either stat still gives the same raw damage, so to speak, whether stacked atop Litany, Chain Strat, and/or Battle Voice, respectively.

2. Agreed, and I'm not certain what the best solution, or even path thereto, ought be. Should we, for instance, remove the crit bonus on Adloquiem, letting the crit itself be enough -- curtailing maximum power while also diminishing the need to fish for crits? Should we remove critical hits from Adlo entirely, instead uniquely having spell power increase based on crit chance and multiplier for a guaranteed bonus? Should we apply a taper (e.g. Bane-like) penalty to the spread but reduce the cooldown and allow it to stack with Succor to a maximum of 300 shield potency (easier with the last change suggested removing RNG from shield power)?

3. It is. And yet, even as someone who doesn't especially like playing SCH, I'd be loathe to lose it or see it meaningfully nerfed. I'd sooner just see Plenary Indulgence not be shit.

4. I feel like this has to be taken with a grain of salt. A SCH's pDPS should not be seen alone so long as they are not the preferred "GCD healer" in their pairing, as that will skew the results in their favor. Instead, you have to look at the comps, or at least healer pairs, that include a SCH vs. those that do not. With change #1, this would already be moved significantly towards balance with AST. Buffs to WHM would then likely allow for perhaps the tightest balance we've yet seen.

Ideally, I would hope all three healers will see significant changes in 5.0 to allow for more of their own cohesive identities each, especially AST in terms of identity and WHM it terms of cohesion. I'm curious what just slightly 'out of the box' changes they could use to bring SCH a bit more in line without sacrificing its flavor, though. Perhaps they could double down on the Fey Link mechanics and pet responsiveness, but cause all pet actions to consume mana (unless afforded by gauge) as not to leave such a large HPS completely free or unchecked nor nerf SCH personal throughput to compensate when that tool would be underutilized?

[Deceptus]

3. It is. And yet, even as someone who doesn't especially like playing SCH, I'd be loathe to lose it or see it meaningfully nerfed. I'd sooner just see Plenary Indulgence not be shit.

Plenary Indulgence could easily be fixed by not being locked behind regen ticks. Make it a Lily spender with a short CD, power determined by how many Lilies you have.

[Mansion]

Plenary Indulgence could easily be fixed by not being locked behind regen ticks.

What? You mean behind GCD heals you are trying to avoid, right?

Agree on making it an oGCD heal based on lillies, but that does not fix the fact that you almost never generate lillies when you optimize healing and DPS in an endgame content.

[MoroMurasaki]

Plenary Indulgence could easily be fixed by not being locked behind regen ticks. Make it a Lily spender with a short CD, power determined by how many Lilies you have.

I don't think you understand how Plenary works.

For every time a party member is healed by a GCD AOE heal they receive one Confession stack. They aren't generated by any kind of HoT other than the initial hit of Medica II.

I'm of the opinion that Plenary isn't really awful as it is now it's just not particularly useful in Alphascape. In o8s it was great.

Perhaps don't suggest changes with such surety if you don't actually understand their basic function.

Description at the bottom of this page

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/whitemage/

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Plenary Indulgence could easily be fixed by not being locked behind regen ticks. Make it a Lily spender with a short CD, power determined by how many Lilies you have.

First off, Plenary indulgence doesn't work like this.

Second, I would be pretty upset if, after all this time, we got lilies changed from a useless CD reduction feature to simply giving us access to Plenary indulgence again. Like, I'd be really upset. Things like this aren't going to cut it anymore for the Lily system. Not to mention even with this change, lilies is still awful to obtain and goes against how the majority of WHMs play.

[Rosa_Frandlia]

I'm of the opinion that Plenary isn't really awful as it is now it's just not particularly useful in Alphascape. In o8s it was great.

I want to know another cap skill that is only useful in high end raids and only in one or two of them. That is the hugest problem with PI, it is so situational it doesn't feel like a cap skill. Benediction as the 50 skill has uses in all content, Tetragrammaton is good in all content, but PI usefull in one or two raids that casual players never do. Is there any other cap skill that is that useless?

[Deceptus]

I want to know another cap skill that is only useful in high end raids and only in one or two of them. That is the hugest problem with PI, it is so situational it doesn't feel like a cap skill. Benediction as the 50 skill has uses in all content, Tetragrammaton is good in all content, but PI usefull in one or two raids that casual players never do. Is there any other cap skill that is that useless?

Dissipation.

[galbsadi]

Oh, great, one of these again. So OP wants us to return to 4.0 where SCH struggled behind all healer classes? Because that's what you get when you ask for a nerf.

Better idea is to buff WHM and AST.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Oh, great, one of these again. So OP wants us to return to 4.0 where SCH struggled behind all healer classes? Because that's what you get when you ask for a nerf.

Better idea is to buff WHM and AST.

Don't strawman. You can nerf a job without destroying it. There comes a point where constantly buffing something leads to power creep. Case in point, look at BRD/MCH back in HW. They were constantly buffed against one another instead of nerfing the one too far ahead. It led to both becoming so strong, the Casters were deemed worthless.