SCH needs some nerfs

[Grimoire-M]

Why would they not just use Lustrate instead?

It would still restore MP at the same rate that ED does. I don't get why you missed that. The only reason for it to affect healing potency at all is to give it a minor boost beyond simply restoring MP, without affecting SCH's shield potency at all. SCH already has a lot of tools to improve their shields. They don't need another. Their GCD heals, however? They could use the boost sometimes, particularly in ARR when the 150 potency heal on Succor and WD are all you have for topping off a dumb group. And there are still level cap situations where you have to toss out Physicks. Alliance Roulette's a good example. You can't lustrate a different party member. And the MP boost would help pad through the loss of using Raise repeatedly more than the Lustrate would, while the healing boost would help make up for spending Aetherflow in that manner. It's not good by any means, but it gives SCH slightly more reach in their worst area, without touching on their best. Most likely you'll simply use it on a Ruin II to move/weave later regardless. That's plenty. It doesn't need to 'beat Lustrate' in potency to be worth using when it already pays for 80% of an Adlo and a third of a res. It's something minor that would be appreciated in Alliance roulette and ARR more than anything.

DPS wise, however, it's still a significant nerf, because it only works on Ruin spells. Not Miasma II, not Broil II. Ruin II is the only DPS spell left on SCH's kit that it would work on. And as a result it is a 50 potency nerf per ED used in the best case scenario, which is one where you're specifically out of melee range or need to move for a long consecutive period of time regardless of whether you're in melee range or not. It's a complete loss if you were using Miasma II to weave them in as much as possible, because now you're cutting into your Miasma II usage in order to weave it in at all, forcing you to instead use Ruin II. You'll rarely weave Miasma II in at all this way, basically only when you had to use the potency of a prior SCH-Focus on a GCD heal instead, already have Bio II rolling, and have to move/weave, and are in melee-range, which is pretty restrictive as it is. So yes, it addresses the problem on all fronts. The only concern you might still have is how to spend all of that MP you've effectively gained from cutting out Miasma II, which...hey, you could use it on your expensive healing spells. Or just keep spamming Broil II. Either way, it's less damage compared to what SCH can currently do. How much simply varies from fight to fight.

A complete re-work as a buff? While not a bad idea (especially for scholar), that would actually mean a total re-work on summoner as they need to use three aetherflow skills to unlock their cap abilities from both HW and (6 total) SB in deathflare and demi-bahamut after two uses of 3 stacks of aetherflow. While that may not be a bad thing, I wonder if SE would go for it. Aetherflow stacks are a key right now to the rotation on summoner.

This is an ED replacement, with nearly the same functionality ED currently has for SMN's specific interactions. The rest of both kits are completely untouched. The only restriction it would need is for the Ruin stacks to only exist inside combat to prevent opener shenanigans. Hell the SMN-Focus trait could trade away the MP for the extra damage just to preserve their current MP values. Regarding Aethertrail, it would proc when you use SMN-Focus, like any Aetherflow ability currently does. It does not gain Aethertrail stacks when you expend the Ruin stacks it gives. All of the current SMN aetherflow abilities require an enemy to be present to work at all though, which cuts into your rotation during jump phases. This guarantees you can get DWT and Bahamut rolling on time, no matter what the fight's like, and lets you go for a Fester/SMN-Focus/Fester opener, which has the same timings as the Fester/Painflare/Fester opener but doesn't lose potential potency to speed it up. It actually lets you squeeze more into the current DWT. Bahamut is the only exception due to the way it interacts with your oGCDs, requiring a target to proc Wyrmwave, but it doesn't change up the core rotation much. You'd use it twice in your non-bahamut Aetherflow window (SMN-Focus/Fester/SMN-Focus) to get to DWT faster and use 3-4 stacks inside DWT for a minor boost of 30-40 potency every 2 minutes. If the Aetherflow lockouts were removed you'd be repeating the opener inside DWT anyways since Fester/SMN-Focus/Fester fits in cleaner than Triple Fester does, which is still 90 potency every 2 minutes over the current rotation for comparison.

The reason for the divergence from the base ability of Focus into two distinct Job-specific abilities is simply because SCH and SMN have different needs that ED doesn't help with, but those needs still share some commonalities. It's a slot worth replacing on both jobs, and functionally what it does is still similar on both, but tweaked to deal with their respective problems. SMN needs an ability to use Aetherflow on during downtime, and specifically needs it to compete with Fester to be worthwhile to use at all. SCH needs the MP more than it needs the potency, and I address the latter concerns above. Focus is specifically so Arcanist has something to do at a low level and ties it all together.

[Jinzhu]

I think the remedy for branching Arcanist is simply add a trait at 30 that simply forces SCH to have a MP-only ED. Though, then we’d have to think: how would SCH spend stacks during downtime? The biggest issue is if SCH dies, they are going to have hell since they lose all their stacks AND they have to re-summon the fairy for healing/eat the fairy for stacks if they need Aetherflow NOW.

So by making ED a % MP gain, that allows things to be more forgiving provided Aetherflow isn’t on CD. It’d even allow them to have a better MP economy and give the power of choice since SCH has to decide how it’s going to plan out their stack usage in a fight.

This is a very bad idea for a few reasons. 1. The amount of SCHs even utilizing their MP at a high level are very small when compared to the population which means Energy Drain would just be as useful as Fluid Aura in most situations. 2. In the raid scene SCHs will become more required than ever as now there is no risk reward value on their Aetherflow stacks and would be able to use all their resources on healing without a DPS loss (up until the point where you need the MP). To add a little on to this about half the Energy Drains you use do nothing for your MP maybe more than half in less healing intensive fights like O9 and O10. Most of the abilities you would use would just end up as fodder to push out your aetherflow uses and would feel terrible to use. 3. Energy Drain is one of the only complexities SCH has. Lining it up with burst or deciding if it's worth using that said Energy Drain on an Indom or Excog. Gutting it would make the job as boring as WHM.

[Ftail]

Well, it is true even without overhealing. In a scenario where Cure III is more viable than Medica II (God Kefka's combo of Heartless Angel followed by Ultima upsurge for instance) ; you are healing with no overheal. Yet you give 25K-30K heal 8 times. In the beginning of a fight when agro has not been built properly yet, you will generate massive amounts of agro for sure. Buffing the potency of Cure III would make it worse. And that's just one special case, most of the time Medica II / Asylum is enough to heal party members. Even with a longer recast timer, if you can't deal with the agro yourself it's no use.

Don't forget WHM has no agro reduction abilities in its kit, compared to AST sects and SCH's split with its fairy (and overall healing design). You only rely on Lucid Dreaming, and its an agro cut, not a reduction of agro generation. I would actually get Cure III removed, it's too clunky to use and almost useless in the current setting of raid healing. But I agree that WHM would have needed some buffs somehow.

I can live with not buffing Cure III then, let's just put it behind a timer then when we buff WHM DPS heavily. I disagree with it being useless, it's amazing when everyone is at 1HP for those mechanics and everyone is stacked up. When I'm playing SCH, I can just completely ignore using an indom and blow it on an energy drain without stopping to help heal.

[Satarn]

When I'm playing SCH, I can just completely ignore using an indom and blow it on an energy drain without stopping to help heal.

This actually illustrates pretty well why Cure III is such a joke. Doing this you(SCH) gain 150 potency, while the WHM loses an entire gcd that could've been used on Stone, which is 250 potency. That's a 100 potency worth of rDPS loss, for a measly 50 more potency worth of healing. Not to mention you don't need to "stop" for Indom - you just weave it while using one of your 3 instant cast damage options, all can be done on the run without a need for the party to stack.

[Rosa_Frandlia]

This is an ED replacement, with nearly the same functionality ED currently has for SMN's specific interactions. The rest of both kits are completely untouched. The only restriction it would need is for the Ruin stacks to only exist inside combat to prevent opener shenanigans. Hell the SMN-Focus trait could trade away the MP for the extra damage just to preserve their current MP values. Regarding Aethertrail, it would proc when you use SMN-Focus, like any Aetherflow ability currently does. It does not gain Aethertrail stacks when you expend the Ruin stacks it gives. All of the current SMN aetherflow abilities require an enemy to be present to work at all though, which cuts into your rotation during jump phases. This guarantees you can get DWT and Bahamut rolling on time, no matter what the fight's like, and lets you go for a Fester/SMN-Focus/Fester opener, which has the same timings as the Fester/Painflare/Fester opener but doesn't lose potential potency to speed it up. It actually lets you squeeze more into the current DWT. Bahamut is the only exception due to the way it interacts with your oGCDs, requiring a target to proc Wyrmwave, but it doesn't change up the core rotation much. You'd use it twice in your non-bahamut Aetherflow window (SMN-Focus/Fester/SMN-Focus) to get to DWT faster and use 3-4 stacks inside DWT for a minor boost of 30-40 potency every 2 minutes. If the Aetherflow lockouts were removed you'd be repeating the opener inside DWT anyways since Fester/SMN-Focus/Fester fits in cleaner than Triple Fester does, which is still 90 potency every 2 minutes over the current rotation for comparison.

The reason for the divergence from the base ability of Focus into two distinct Job-specific abilities is simply because SCH and SMN have different needs that ED doesn't help with, but those needs still share some commonalities. It's a slot worth replacing on both jobs, and the functionally what it does is still similar on both, but tweaked to deal with their respective problems. SMN needs an ability to use Aetherflow on during downtime, and specifically needs it to compete with Fester to be worthwhile to use at all. SCH needs the MP more than it needs the potency, and I address the latter concerns above. Focus is specifically so Arcanist has something to do at a low level and ties it all together.

I had another thought you may like, tie ED soley to the INT stat. This would make it have declining strength just like Physick to the summoner. This wouldn't touch archanist at all, meaning nothing would be changed there. I know it goes against all DPS coming from MND in SB, but it would likely also give the effect you want without messing with SMN at all and making it not as effective for SCH. I wouldn't think this would have too much coding at all to change, but give both SMN and SCH a spell that is useful while leveling (especially to 50 where gear has both MND and INT) and after that give it diminishing returns. Change the tooltip, change it so it goes off INT, done. No major re-work to either SCH or SMN.

[Grimoire-M]

I had another thought you may like, tie ED soley to the INT stat. This would make it have declining strength just like Physick to the summoner. This wouldn't touch archanist at all, meaning nothing would be changed there. I know it goes against all DPS coming from MND in SB, but it would likely also give the effect you want without messing with SMN at all and making it not as effective for SCH. I wouldn't think this would have too much coding at all to change, but give both SMN and SCH a spell that is useful while leveling (especially to 50 where gear has both MND and INT) and after that give it diminishing returns. Change the tooltip, change it so it goes off INT, done. No major re-work to either SCH or SMN.

I don't think changing one button qualifies as a major rework to either job, particularly when the individual components of the ability I presented exist in other forms already. The only odd bit really is that it uses Refresh potency rather than a percentage boost on a non-combat ability.

[lulunami]

Energy Drain is used for raid burst windows, fairy Gauge, and low damage parts of encounters.

If the damage component of Energy Drain were to be reduced for SCH, you would really only see SCH use Energy Drain to balance out Succor MP usage. SCH would not really use Energy Drain anymore since you get a lot more equivalent MP value out of Indom, Excog, and Lustrate.

[KDSilver]

The debate is interesting and all, but the more I read, the more I feel like people want to completely break scholar based design.
...let's not ? Nerfing doesn't include a complete rework, especially when this one is really well made.

[Risvertasashi]

The debate is interesting and all, but the more I read, the more I feel like people want to completely break scholar based design.
...let's not ? Nerfing doesn't include a complete rework, especially when this one is really well made.

SCH does need to be toned down a bit, but, yeah. Unfortunately in this sort of situation, a lot of people will want to hate nerf a job into the ground.

Fortunately for SCHs and unfortunately for healer balance, SE is extremely shy about nerfing any job and it's not likely to happen, though. Or if it does, it'll be like 20 potency off some ability.

[Rosa_Frandlia]

SCH does need to be toned down a bit, but, yeah. Unfortunately in this sort of situation, a lot of people will want to hate nerf a job into the ground.

Fortunately for SCHs and unfortunately for healer balance, SE is extremely shy about nerfing any job and it's not likely to happen, though. Or if it does, it'll be like 20 potency off some ability.

You should remember what they did to WHM and fluid aura then, taking away all damage and only leaving knock back. How is this skill use full in raids where everything is resistant to knockback and sleep is also useless as it is resistant to sleep? They also took away stoneskin and stoneskin II and made 5 of its skills role skills. My WHM hotbar is about 2/3rds the size of my SCH hotbar, not even counting the fairy one. I actually laughed maining WHM when they said hotbars are bloated at Fanfast, as I have all of WHM on 2 and before SB it was into 3.

Toning down Energy Drain wouldn't change SCH as much as some are saying if it loses its power as you get higher in levels. It is a level 6 skill and most actually do, which I guess doesn't happen to WHM as it doesn't have a level 6 skill anymore with it moved to role actions.