SCH needs some nerfs

[Mansion]

You question the idea that SCH is broken, and then you list off all the reasons why it's broken....
It's a perfect job as it currently is now, it has no obvious downsides and that's precisely why it's broken next to a job like WHM.

Well that's just how you want to see the things:
SCH is broken compared to WHM. But then SCH is well balanced compared to AST. WHM is not the basis of healing in FFXIV.

I don't think the discussion is constructive if WHM is your focal point of comparison. SCH in Stormblood's high end content just fits the deal, and so does AST. There is not so much healing required in those fights, they can contribute to raid DPS by buffing or by their pDPS (meaning they can heal with little DPS loss). Their kits are well designed, that's a fact.

Healing in FFXIV currently works fine for 2 jobs out of 3. WHM is the problem, not SCH.

[MoroMurasaki]

Healing in FFXIV currently works fine for 2 jobs out of 3. WHM is the problem, not SCH.

Acting like there isn't a huge gap between AST and SCH is either disingenuous or ignorant. Diurnal AST has clears because the alternative is WHM but Noct is essentially pointless outside of encounters that you have down to a science like the linked o9s video from Mono Sama.

WHM is an issue in terms of healer balance because it's underpowered but SCH is the same problem in the opposite direction.

[EaMett]

Noct is essentially pointless outside of encounters that you have down to a science like the linked o9s video from Mono Sama.

That's perfectly normal. If WHM weren't so shitty we would see way more WHM+AST combos. It just never happens because the rDPS gap between whm and sch is outrageous. There isn't a huge gap between noct AST and SCH. Just plenty of SCH to go around because the SCH/AST balance is relatively recent.

Also, people who think WHM will ever be on par with the other healers are going to be sorely disappointed. It's contrary to everything WHM stands for in the eyes of SE, they've made this incredibly clear over the past few years. WHM will always be the non meta healer (it takes very specific content to leverage it better than the other healers). CNJ is the only healer available at the start of the game, it's meant to be the forgiving healer for beginners and people who struggle with their controls. It's the one healer who's design is to have a moderate learning curve and early skill cap.

I suspect they will fix a bit of the potencies, maybe fix a bit of weaving issues WHM has in 4.5. Nothing game changing though. Then revamp in 5.0 so we get something roughly equivalent to where we were at 4.0.

[KDSilver]

That's perfectly normal. If WHM weren't so shitty

Whm really need adjustment indeed, but he's far from being "shitty".
And he's not the only "prob" in the WHM/AST comp.
Noct Ast hardly compete with Sch for that spot...

Lady of Crown is RNG, even if personnal shield is stronger, it's still breaks quickly, he has a "lack" of sustained heal/regen, CU is on a 90s.
He may have to use to benefic II or Helios while SCH could just pop Indom/whispering dawn/ let the fairy do with embrace/fey union
The Bole isn't really a reliable option. It's RNG, and any bole you'd keep on Spread would be a DPS card you could have instead.
Sch can just pop Fey Wind and Chain Stratagem, keep dpsing and rely on its strong hGCD.
The gap got smaller between Aspected Helios / Succor
Noct Ast has to make sacrifice (own dps/cards/your co-healer perf) while SCH synced better with regen healers.

[Mansion]

Acting like there isn't a huge gap between AST and SCH is either disingenuous or ignorant. Diurnal AST has clears because the alternative is WHM but Noct is essentially pointless outside of encounters that you have down to a science like the linked o9s video from Mono Sama.

But in the context of AST noct and WHM, AST is still so much better in healing/DPS balance and raid utility, (and that would still be the case for WHM and diurnal AST if the fight allows no shielding).
I see your point though, you mean AST is good but SCH is even better, I kinda agree on that. But I'm repeating myself: that's because SCH is the closest to FFXIV's optimal healing gameplay, while WHM is far behind. I don't see it as a matter of overpower.

[MoroMurasaki]

But in the context of AST noct and WHM, AST is still so much better in healing/DPS balance and raid utility, (and that would still be the case for WHM and diurnal AST if the fight allows no shielding).
I see your point though, you mean AST is good but SCH is even better, I kinda agree on that. But I'm repeating myself: that's because SCH is the closest to FFXIV's optimal healing gameplay, while WHM is far behind. I don't see it as a matter of overpower.

I suppose it's a matter of scale. If we take AST as being well balanced for current content (so 100%) I see WHM as being perhaps 70% (and only even that high because of their performance in Ultimate which really is admirable) and SCH being about 130% with the extent to which they can ignore virtually all GCD healing. Our choices are buffing WHM by an absolutely massive amount to reach SCH while also buffing AST in both sects or bringing the bottom up and the top down. I think the latter is the better option for the sake of the longevity of content.

[Jollyy5]

Issues with WHM have been confirmed by Yoshida, it will most likely receive some manner of a band-aid in 4.5 because it would be pretty bad form to leave under performing jobs in the dust for about half a year, and then be further reworked in 5.0 along with other classes.

[Ghishlain]

Issues with WHM have been confirmed by Yoshida, it will most likely receive some manner of a band-aid in 4.5 because it would be pretty bad form to leave under performing jobs in the dust for about half a year, and then be further reworked in 5.0 along with other classes.

I'd rather they don't band-aid fix WHM in 4.5 because then that opens the window of:

"see, we fixed WHM in 4.5! So we don't need to give it a huge overhaul in 5.0!"

I'd rather they fix it right in a single go at this point - and I expect that fix in the 5.0 range.

[Raikai]

I hope so! I really want to be maining WHM, but I can do arguably better with SCH while bringing some neat utility.

The issues on WHM, as far as I've experienced, and proposals to band-aid them:

- Lilies are basically an ignore-able mechanic. My suggestion to fix it, is that the more lilies you spend in those abilities, the stronger they become, less MP they cost. The reduced cooldown it's negligible at best. Also, make Stone like a 50% chance to proc a Lily, and add Holy to the enhanced spells.

- Plenary Indulgence sucks, because by the time you have enough confessions to make it work, your party won't need it anymore. I actually think the niche of this spell is really redundant. For a band-aid, maybe make the confession stacks last like 1 minute, so you'll have a full powered PI when the boss lands a big AoE again... Come 5.0, replace this spell for Arise, 190 recast time, raises your target and 2 other people nearby without the weakened debuff.

I think 5.0 should really set up the niche for WHM, as the "selfish healer", that just brings, beyond powerful healing, really powerful dps. Reducing the cast time from Stone IV, keep the Aero dot and Aero 3 ditched for a instant cast spell with moderate recast time (like 20 seconds) that do big damage in AoE... Maybe Water II or something like that? As of my 1st suggestion, Holy mp cost would be better with lilies, so you'd be able to weave in between a few Stones.

[lulunami]

WHM Lily system is just under-par compared to AST cards and SCH fairy meter. If they designed a new resource system for WHM even with the current spells and abilities, WHM could be in a much better spot. One of the reasons SCH got so much better now is they gave it QoL improvements to make controlling the fairy a lot easier. Same for AST with the clipping reduction.

As easy as it may be to just use the nerf bat, they should focus on making WHM more fun to play with a new mini-game system for WHM. Lily is just brain-dead right now.