New roles for existing jobs idea

[HyoMinPark]

I think Miasma can be switched out for something else (as with scholar eventually swapping Ruin for Broil) but the effect of Miasma cannot be changed.

I don’t know. I’d think they could change these values—after all, they’ve already done something similar with SMN Miasma versus SCH Miasma: one scales its potency off of INT, the other off of MND. So I do think it’s possible, what DeaconMoore is suggesting. I think it’s more the question of “Do they want to do this” as opposed to “Can they do this”.

[Vaer]

Hmm, kinda baffling to me. I mean, is it really so hard to say hey you got a scholar stone equipped, miasma does X; hey you have a summoner stone equipped, miasma does Y; hey you don't have a soul stone equipped miasma does Z? I mean, they do manage to change our classes up in pvp...

Is the spaghetti code that is the core of FFXIV so tangled up they can't?

They've basically done this in SB. SMN has versions of the spell that replace the default ones that SCH/ACN and SMN below 66ish has access to (Miasma/Bio II > III), so they can separately balance them without affecting the other job and even Arcanist at lower levels.

Branching assumes they share certain skills, so they'd have to replace them somehow to not affect the other jobs if they change one of them. They could just make a new ability (like what they did with Ruin>Broil, or Ruin>Ruin III and Bio/Miasma) but if you're going to do that might as well make it a new job since they basically aren't really branching much after that.

I'm not sure why they don't just scale it based on stone equipped, but I guess they would rather add new abilities that are easier to debug or change a potency number that affects one job.

I do find it odd that Summon/Summon II seems to have this functionality since it summons different pets depending on your stone.

[Iscah]

I meant to say in my first post - if they ever did add more variations on existing classes, I would like to see a lancer-tank that split off early like scholar does. Way back in the early stages of the game, lancer was the first non-mage class I signed up for, and I thought from the guild introduction that it sounded like a tank (first in line to defend your allies, or something like that). It's also the closest thing Gridania has to a tank-class guild - the "heavily armoured" class and used by the local peacekeeping force.

I'd pictured it being a relatively agile tank, holding enemy attention rather than active defence... more of a character concept than a functional class idea. (The guildmaster talks about them preferring lighter armour to metal plate - that might have been what first set me thinking it was grouped with the tanks, come to think of it.)

[Shurrikhan]

Hmm, kinda baffling to me. I mean, is it really so hard to say hey you got a scholar stone equipped, miasma does X; hey you have a summoner stone equipped, miasma does Y; hey you don't have a soul stone equipped miasma does Z? I mean, they do manage to change our classes up in pvp...

Is the spaghetti code that is the core of FFXIV so tangled up they can't?

They also went on record saying content was cut from ARR because they had to completely rework the 1.x code, and yet that same code keeps being an alleged restriction to this day...

Having SMN and SCH nominally sourced by the same class means, in itself, absolutely nothing beyond a lore attachment. It could entail that they level together, or it could entail zero connection in leveling. It could entail that they each require Arcanist level 30, and then Arcanist goes no further, matches the higher of the separately leveled SMN / SCH, or remains as a third suboption. Without the system, the connection is no more than flavor text, and every issue that has spawned from the SMN / SCH connection has been due to implementation through that system, not the fact alone that the two share some lore or a base-class origin.

Already even pre-30 traits are adjusted retroactively when equipping the SCH / SMN job stones, while certain pre-30 spells go/went missing upon equipping the stone. An aura filter could as easily make every remaining shared skill act completely differently between the two jobs if the devs felt that was beneficial. And yet, even after making it so the system is a non-issue aside from shared experience, they do nothing to remedy the so-called tenuous situation. So, I have to wonder, is it really as problematic as alleged? Conceptually, it's certainly not. And while it proved a minor debacle originally, that was only due to how poorly the connection was made between the two jobs (i.e. due the systems created uniquely, and poorly, for that connection).

[Duskane]

I alwaysed wanted holy dragoon(from FF4 AY) as tank

They clearly dont struggle with sch/smn now since SB rework on them,
Also they might have said never when arr was out but same team said never see white raven earrings again.

[Enkidoh]

To the OP, FFXIV's battle system is simply not set up for that, as that it's whole point - this is not like FFXI where Job class and weapon type are seperate, here your class/Job is your weapon (this is the reason after all why class icons are usually of the weapon it equips), if you want to use a different weapon, equip it, the class changes accordingly (this was better reflected back in 1.0's original system where class was something of a misnomer and was simply a way of identifying abilities attached to the use of that weapon, and different class abilities could be mixed and matched on different weapons (read: classes. But that system was altered when Jobs were added to the game and the classes had to be redesigned to make a better fit for the Job upgrades - this was the origin of the much-maligned 'cross-class ability' system).

Hence, if you want to use a sword, you're a GLA/PLD, if you want to use a spear, you're a LNC/DRG, if you want to use a gun, you're a MCH, etc etc. And the set roles for each class/Job has only been further streamlined with ARR and each class being given an identifying 'role', which means they are further constrained into those narrow roles.

As others have mentioned already, we won't see a repeat of ACN splitting into SMN and SCH as that was clearly an experiment on SE's part that failed (I suspect SE are planning to actually remove SCH completely from ACN and make it it's own independent 'classless' Job, as it already sits on it's own in the Edit Search Comment window in the game, where SMN is listed below ACN.), so that is further proof SE are not interested in varying class/Job roles.

As for gunblades, well, there are already gunblade weapons equippable by players in the game anyway (Lightning's gunblade the Blazefire Sabre from FFXIII is a GLA/PLD weapon, although the gun part is non functional, and the 'knifelock' type guns used by MCH are clearly gunblades as they have a blade on the bottom of the barrel that is larger than a simple bayonet). Hence I do not even see making a specific 'gunblade' class I'm afraid, they'll just continue to add gunblade type weapons to existing classes and Jobs.

Really, there is nothing wrong with the Armoury System at it's core (as in, weapon identifies class and upgrades to a Job), it's a different system. Sure it can be improved and tweaked, but it will not be changed into a FFIII/V/XI/Tactics-style Job System, SE has made that quite clear. Your weapon is your class/Job here and that's how it will always be.

[Duskane]

As for gunblades, well, there are already gunblade weapons equippable by players in the game anyway (Lightning's gunblade the Blazefire Sabre from FFXIII is a GLA/PLD weapon, although the gun part is non functional, and the 'knifelock' type guns used by MCH are clearly gunblades as they have a blade on the bottom of the barrel that is larger than a simple bayonet). Hence I do not even see making a specific 'gunblade' class I'm afraid, they'll just continue to add gunblade type weapons to existing classes and Jobs.

A weapon skin doesn't rule out a class being playable
Its like Dragoon has many axe head weapons does that mean warrior cant exist
Paladin has a war pick rip miner
99% of machinist weapons are just guns with no blade on it .

[Iscah]

A weapon skin doesn't rule out a class being playable
Its like Dragoon has many axe head weapons does that mean warrior cant exist
Paladin has a war pick rip miner
99% of machinist weapons are just guns with no blade on it .

The "axe head weapons" you're referring to are halberds. They are classified as pole arms like spears, and dragoon wields it like one.

(Though I can't think what weapon you're talking about as a "war pick".)

The problem with a "gunblade class" is finding a niche for it that works separate to the existing gun or blade classes; however I think Enkidoh's point is that you can still visibly have one as your weapon even if they don't implement it as a class in its own right.

[Duskane]

The "axe head weapons" you're referring to are halberds. They are classified as pole arms like spears, and dragoon wields it like one.

(Though I can't think what weapon you're talking about as a "war pick".)

The problem with a "gunblade class" is finding a niche for it that works separate to the existing gun or blade classes; however I think Enkidoh's point is that you can still visibly have one as your weapon even if they don't implement it as a class in its own right.

well the niche could easily be found just by name of the job and the premise behind it
and could easily separate itself from machinist
also two popular FF characters have a gun blade looking at games like ff8,ff13 and dissidia easily could see a difference with Squall and Lightning compared to the other blade users we have.

i also would like to see more gimmick weapon skins like eddas scythe but i don't think its takes out any possibly of a Jobs main weapon being a scythe as a example

[Jandor]

More jobs branching from base classes was the route I wished they'd gone, but at this point it seems very unlikely to happen.