Thread: SMN and the 4.4 update rotation! :)

If you are gonna use Bahamut for contagion, that mean you can not use tri-disaster for ww triggers? Or are you gonna use manually dots after second tri-disaster. If you delay contagion for basic bahamut rotatio, it not have raid synergy anymore, so it is not good either. If you use manually dots during 2 min timers that mean your 2 min raid synergy hurt as well and you can not weave certain skills during dwt stance. Another thing is rouse not have synergy anymore during 1 min timers. It probably have better 3min timers for battle litany and voice, but idk.

I get that Garuda is pretty much the main pet to be up nowadays, but notice a DPS loss keeping it up long term even with contagion every 60secs for festers and/or demi-bahamut attacks w/ festers. I know potency is important in the long term. Seeing the difference in raids, ifrit still looks the best choice overall because of the potency of it's attacks.

Originally Posted by Neela

I guess the main reason why people still have worse numbers with ruda are mostly they never were used to micromanage pets at all while con now need a bit more attention to be effective than braindead sicfrit - its also a raid-buff so its not just about your personal dps which maybe drops a bit but still buffs caster-mates, healers and even Paladin.

but okay... meh "my" dps dropped down so I get back to sicfrit heu heu... : /

If that's how you perceive the comment then....ok.

its no offense to you just a general call tho - if u take a look at all the smn threads since radiant got nerfed its always the same: although the balance gurus say Garuda now is on pair or even on top of Ifrit in the right comp/fights - most of the comments are "well I know but my dmg dropped" so its not because ruda is still worse its about people are not used to rudas clunky casts/ques and managing con theirselves.

"Ifrit still works better for me" is just an excuse somehow... cause until now pet management wasn't a thing to consider - to align it the right way without loss needs practice and learnings again... but yet again its way easier to stick with sicfrit telling yourself "its just better" : /

Originally Posted by Neela

"Ifrit still works better for me" is just an excuse somehow... cause until now pet management wasn't a thing to consider - to align it the right way without loss needs practice and learnings again... but yet again its way easier to stick with sicfrit telling yourself "its just better" : /

That's not an excuse.
Garuda need more training, so since this change if fairly recent, some people want to stay on solid basis first to at least master fight they don't, and once they'll feel better with ruda's aligment, they start using it more oftent.
Some people may indeed just stay in their confort zone because they don't want to do extra effort, sure, it does exist, but I strongly believe a good portion are just working on it on dummy and easier content first then once they'll feel confident enough with it, they use garuda everytime.

At least, that's what I do, yet, I'm training the ruda apart.

I have no problem doing garuda. Set up pet macros on placements that can make it easier for me to manage. Looking at the overall situation, ifrit still trumps by it's attack potency even if radiant shield got nerfed. Now if garuda's potency on it's attacks increase then maybe it might be better to use in overall fights.....unless the nxt expansion says it otherwise.

Originally Posted by Osmond

I have no problem doing garuda. Set up pet macros on placements that can make it easier for me to manage. Looking at the overall situation, ifrit still trumps by it's attack potency even if radiant shield got nerfed. Now if garuda's potency on it's attacks increase then maybe it might be better to use in overall fights.....unless the nxt expansion says it otherwise.

Looking at pet potency alone is one of the worst ways to look about it due to the fact that Ifrit/Titan vs Garuda do not scale the same. Ifrit's potency is ~60% of Garuda's - Burning Strike + Attack + his ogcds are more damage than Garuda's Wind Blade + oGCDs in a vacuum. But when you throw Contagion against the full rotation the balance tips in favour of Garuda.

Good garuda over good Obey Ifrit is about ~1.3-1.4%ish. Good garuda over yolo Sicfrit is more like ~2.6-2.7%ish when you account for clipping etc.

That's for personal dps before you look at raid dps and buff synergy windows, which will depend on comp for total value. Before with Radiant having damage reflects it tipped the total package in favour of Ifrit in physical comps. The removal of that tipped it to Garuda in effectively all situations when looking at good play.

Originally Posted by Nemekh

Looking at pet potency alone is one of the worst ways to look about it due to the fact that Ifrit/Titan vs Garuda do not scale the same. Ifrit's potency is ~60% of Garuda's - Burning Strike + Attack + his ogcds are more damage than Garuda's Wind Blade + oGCDs in a vacuum. But when you throw Contagion against the full rotation the balance tips in favour of Garuda.

Good garuda over good Obey Ifrit is about ~1.3-1.4%ish. Good garuda over yolo Sicfrit is more like ~2.6-2.7%ish when you account for clipping etc.

That's for personal dps before you look at raid dps and buff synergy windows, which will depend on comp for total value. Before with Radiant having damage reflects it tipped the total package in favour of Ifrit in physical comps. The removal of that tipped it to Garuda in effectively all situations when looking at good play.

but you get more procs with Ifrit.., is obey Garuda really worth the hassle?

Originally Posted by Shiroe

but you get more procs with Ifrit.., is obey Garuda really worth the hassle?

It is. I've always recommended players learn how to use both Ifrit and Garuda. Alas, the majority of people focused almost exclusively on the former post 4.1.

I do see it often said that Ifrit generates more procs of R4. The difference in incidence is so slight that it only ever matters to gain one extra proc after enough minutes have passed. All the difference really is in is Shockwave vs Crimson Cyclone's cooldowns. In terms of overall dps it barely matters.