Some questions about ARR

[Iscah]

The scene begins with Cid asking Where did I get these goggles? and ends with You handing him his (metaphorical) goggles. His memories.

In all likelihood it's just a visual metaphor as Cid experienced it. Perhaps his third eye really did give him some kind of weird hallucination as you did it, but at the very least I'm fairly confident in the metaphor part.

That does seem more likely.

I think part of my confusion is that just before the vision, he's talking about how he remembered being on an airship with adventurers before - and any talk of previous adventurers is generally an indicator for "1.0 event reference incoming" - so I assumed the remembered scene on the airship was a memory of something that legacy players were actually present for.

Still, with no other context, it's a little hard to make sense of. I understand the WoL would be physically present in Echo visions in 1.0? But I don't think any other 2.0 scenes do that. At very least perhaps it needed to show us present and watching Cid before that point, to establish us as more of an observer-to-the-whole-sequence and rather than an 'event' of us appearing in one place and time.

Estinien had a moment of weakness and doubt and the Eye seized on it. If I remember right, that was where the whole ruse started - Estinien's rage was being twisted into a desire to take revenge on Alberic for his part in Ferndale's destruction. Notice that Estinien even cries out with a desire to drink dragon's blood and gain the ability to tear at his enemies with fang and claw. He just lost the mental battle for a moment.

I understand what was going on during the battle (except the Haldrath bit anyway), my issue is what we're shown/told of what happens after. It would make a lot more sense if we'd seen Estinien regain control of himself after we defeated him. Instead we see him snatched away by Nidhogg, and then Alberic tells us that he's missing and nobody has seen him since. And then he just turns up again in the MSQ like none of it ever happened - and for all I know, Nidhogg might still be controlling him. It took me a very long time to stop suspecting that was the case.

Even if his one line was changed, it could make such a difference. All he says in reference to it is "I'm not here to challenge you this day" - if instead he said something like "I wasn't myself the last time we met", that would work better.

And yet to hear Eynzahr tell it, as soon as she was in real danger he swooped in and threw her over his chocobo "like a bloody knight of Ishgard", lol.

I'd just caught onto Carvallain's no doubt purely coincidental resemblance to certain Ishgardian nobles at the point when I read the Tales From the Calamity, so I loved the reference.

That's a funny lopsided thing with our individual conversations with them though. Both are in blatant denial, but not each focused on the other - Carvallain's far too busy insisting he's not from Ishgard to talk about any not-feelings he might have regarding Rhoswen.

From what I've seen, at least (mostly Lv55 CUL and also an older Valentione's Day quest script), I don't feel like the dance is equally "they secretly like each other" as much as it's Rhoswen liking Carvallain, getting halfway to admitting it and doing something he'd really appreciate, him getting halfway to noticing, but then she steps back and doubles down on the "of course I don't like him" act - which makes him turn suspicious of her motives and the whole thing falls apart. Again.

Were they in 1.0? Did anything interesting happen with them?

If the Garlean alarum is putting forth a word, it could very well be in Latin - though it's hard to make out anything concrete.

Hmm yeah, Latin would make sense if they used it. I don't know any Latin though.

[ChaoticCrimson]

I always like to pretend the Garlean alarms are a super-autotuned voice saying "bring on the beat". Even Garlean soldiers need to party every once in a while :P

[Anonymoose]

I think part of my confusion is that just before the vision, he's talking about how he remembered being on an airship with adventurers before - and any talk of previous adventurers is generally an indicator for "1.0 event reference incoming" - so I assumed the remembered scene on the airship was a memory of something that legacy players were actually present for.

If I remember correctly, that line is there no matter what. It's the scene after where he specifies that specifically you were taken specifically to fight Darnus that's the Legacy one.

Still, with no other context, it's a little hard to make sense of. I understand the WoL would be physically present in Echo visions in 1.0? But I don't think any other 2.0 scenes do that.

Yes, the Echo wasn't a verbatim instant replay. You entered their memory itself - a representation of a past truth - where things might not go exactly as they once did. You could have discussions with people as if you were there - thus, discussions that never actually happened. It was a malleable, changeable, exploreable flashback. This added to the confusingness and convolitedness of the story and seems to have been sidelined entirely, which imo was an overcorrection.

my issue is what we're shown/told of what happens after. It would make a lot more sense if we'd seen Estinien regain control of himself after we defeated him. Instead we see him snatched away by Nidhogg, and then Alberic tells us that he's missing and nobody has seen him since. And then he just turns up again in the MSQ like none of it ever happened - and for all I know, Nidhogg might still be controlling him. It took me a very long time to stop suspecting that was the case.

Even if his one line was changed, it could make such a difference. All he says in reference to it is "I'm not here to challenge you this day" - if instead he said something like "I wasn't myself the last time we met", that would work better.

Agreed. Though that is how I took the lines in combination. "f ever I was without equal, I am no longer─as my fellow Azure Dragoon here will attest. Be at ease, I did not come to challenge you this day." suggests that you have proven ability to stand against him, and augments his later line "Through the power of the Eye, I have become the vessel of Nidhogg's strength. His essence has stolen into my very blood. Fear not─I am in full control of my faculties, I assure you." It allows him to testify to your strength and assure you of his re-gained control without having to admit in front of Aymeric that he'd succumbed to the Eye while essentially at the job briefing for killing Nidhogg.

Were they in 1.0? Did anything interesting happen with them?

They were! The Sirens and the Krakkens were constantly at one another's throats in town, as both were true pirate crews acting outside Merlwyb's authority before she'd won over Hyllfyr's respect and they all signed the accord. But even in 1562, at the height of piracy, even as their crews killed one another at times, Carvallain and Rhoswen would secretly meet to discuss things bigger than themselves - trade information that affected both crews - conspire - and they got along just fine.

For example, in 1562, when Commodore Sthalmann's coup was underway, he went to the Astalicia to extract one of his pawns under the guise of an arrest - Emerick of the Kraken's Arms - who'd smuggled the "Treasure of Swallowtail Roam" past his crew on the Commodore's orders (the horn aka The Key that was stolen by the Ascian Travanchet). Carvallain declares that anyone who'd conspire with the Sahagin is an enemy of all of Limsa and freely gives Sthalmann leave to search for the "traitor," but as soon as they're out of sight, Rhoswen pulls him into a dark corner to catch up in private.

Rhoswen
I heard it all, Carvallain... Oh deary me. Believe the Admiral's lapdog's on to somethin', do you? What in the Navigator's name has become o' this city!?

Carvallain
I find the situation as perplexing as you, my dear Rhoswen. And all this time, I believed it was your man Merodaulyn who had stolen the charts after infiltrating the Barracudas' ranks.

Rhoswen
Tread carefully, Captain. Merod barely 'scaped with his life when the fishbacks ambushed the 'Cudas. If this rat Emerick really did betray his kind, I personally guarantee that Sthalmann and his bootlickers will be the least of his worries.

[Iscah]

Well, that does sound a lot more intriguing than the failed-romantic-comedy duo we've currently got! (Even if they are ever so fun to watch in that mode....)

I wonder if they could get brought back into a more serious storyline at some point? The Ninja questline continues to involve the Rogues' Guild (and Carvallain even inadvertently kicked off the Stormblood chapter of the story by rescuing some "Doman refugees" who turned out to be the villains of the piece). Or a potential hook into the Machinist story via Rostnsthal? Which leads back to Ishgard... though come to think of it, neither Carvallain or Rostnsthal want to be in the location where the other is.

But... all the plot with Carvallain and Rhoswen is going on in 1562? and seeming much the same as they are in the current time? Are they both already captains? Because it occurred to me previously (when trying to plot Carvallain's timeline relative to other known dates) that he'd only be 19 at that time, barely a grown adult by Elezen standards. Which just seems an odd idea - not that he wouldn't be capable of being a mature adult mentally before that point, compare Alphinaud - but still a bit strange. And given all the other weirdness going on with his family's timeline..... well.

I did wonder previously if his stated age of 34 could be a bit lower than it should be - say if he was actually 19, not 14 when he ran away, but since Elezen still look young at that stage, he lied about his age? (Even moreso if he's trying to distance himself from his actual identity and doesn't want anyone hearing that a 19-year-old noble is missing and putting two and two together...)

Still not enough to wrangle the timeline into making sense with everything said in the AST storyline, but it could just about scrape everything into a functional timeline if they wanted to maintain Jannequinard being two years younger than Carvallain - making them 39 and 37 would just work for the twenty-years-ago AST plot, making Janne 17 instead of 12. Kind of what the lorebook tried to do by saying it happened 15 years ago, but working in the opposite direction.

please forgive my endless fixation with this timeline snarl...

[Anonymoose]

Hey, a player speculating is a player engaged. If something is genuinely askew from that the writers seem to aspire to, harp on it until they fix it. What's the worst that could happen? They like writing themselves out of corners. Inspire them.

If you go by that timeline Carvallain goes from kidnap victim to CAPTAIN OF THE KRAKEN'S ARMS in a very short period of time, from a very young age.

Convince them to write that story. That's probably a great story.

[Iscah]

I don't entriely mind what story they write (though preferably with minimal rewriting of anything already stated in game) as long as we end up with one single timeline, and not multiple conflicting versions of the facts. And make sure anyone writing or translating any plots referencing it have used the correct version of the information.

(It's feeling a bit like the story-equivalent of Schrodinger's Cat at the moment - simultaneously in two different states depending on which version they'll make canon.)

Also I do have to wonder if somewhere along the process of rebuilding the story for 2.0, some pre-existing character profiles failed to get updated for the five-year timeskip? If Carvallain was 34 in 1.0 and 24 in the flashbacks, that might make more sense. (Likewise for Rhoswen, whose given age is 36 - again it seems odd that both pirate captains were so young in the early story, but 24 and 26 could be more probable.)

[Iscah]

And thanks for the clarification on arcanist "distaffs", which was more interesting than I was expecting the answer to be!

I guess if anyone is going to still be equipped with an outdated, obscure weapon, Urianger is probably the one character where it actually makes sense!

(In a similar vein, it occurred to me a while ago that it seems rather appropriate that his alternate costume choice of the Orthodox mage's robes seems to be thousand-year-old Dravanian clothing - at least judging by the fending version being the uniform of Haldrath's knights.)

[Remedi]

I don't remember did we get a story about the 80 sins in the end?

[Anonymoose]

I don't remember did we get a story about the 80 sins in the end?

Only the CliffNotes, but don't lose hope.

If they've got room for [Here's a bunch of noteworthy spears.] chances are they had room for [SASAMO'S TRUTH WILL OUT].

[Jyera]

I'd have to go digging for the original source, but re: Cid's memories cutscene, I think I read an interview with Koji or someone else on the lore team that explained this scene is semi-metaphorical. It's not giving you an organised, literal peek into what happened in order; it's you travelling with him through the wreckage, like Anonymoose said, and explicit memories are woven into emotional impressions and the process of suturing things back together.