Some questions about ARR

[Iscah]

I have a few questions about things from ARR - two major ones, and a few minor ones.


1. Lv44 MSQ: Lady of the Vortex

"That light - it was you, wasn't it?"

As a non-legacy player, the scene with Cid on the airship is very puzzling. I'm not sure if it makes different sense to someone who was there originally, but it seems to imply that the Warrior of Light is "not human" and somehow manifested to Cid in a blaze of light five years ago... is that the intended reading of the scene? What happened originally?

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2. Lv50 Dragoon quest

As I wrote in the 'lore questions for Fan Fest' thread, the ending of the Dragoon quest storyline was very strange.

We see Estinien possessed by Nidhogg, and then our character somehow manifests as the legendary dragoon Haldrath. At the end of the fight, Estinien is never shown to return to his senses, but as the in-game journal describes it, "the being of darkness vanishes from sight, taking the fallen dragoon with it".

If you talk to Alberic afterwards, it seems that Estinien has vanished entirely and nobody knows where he's gone. But then he turns up again in his first MSQ-appearance like nothing has happened. So...

a. What actually happened to Estinien at that point?

b. What was happening when we transformed into Haldrath? (And in light of later revelations, was it the spirit of the real Haldrath or the legendary one?) Did we somehow spontaneously summon him, in the vein of Ysayle summoning Shiva, or is something else going on?

It also seems ironic that he's so antagonistic to Ysayle throughout Heavensward when the climax of this story actually has him pray to Nidhogg for strength. (He actually is a heretic by this - though not in his right mind at the time - not that either we or Alberic would let anyone know that happened!) Unless... he's been mind-wiped when Nidhogg snatches him at the end? But then again, if you've completed that quest it affects his MSQ dialogue, which suggests he remembers it.

Hopefully we'll get an answer from the lore team, but does anyone else have thoughts on it?

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3. Mordyn at the Seventh Sage says that Carvallain "watches over the business [of the Kraken's Arms] 'imself, when 'e's not busy watchin' over 'is lovely little Elezen bride".

Given the complete lack of any other reference to her, and the running thread of Carvallain and Rhoswen as a not-quite-couple... is this some kind of code for something else (a 1.0 reference new players won't get?), something lost in translation, or is he really actually married?

Edit (9 Jan 2022): Having come back to this thread years later, I can now note that this script translation was an error that has since been resolved and corrected. Mordyn now says that Carvallain watches over his crew.

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4. Outside Mih Khetto's Amphitheatre there's a small merchant stall run by a man called Mayeulons. If you talk to him he just says "We're closed. Come back later. Would that every day could be a festival..."

I first assumed he must do something during seasonal events, but any time I've checked he's still just saying that. Is he there for another reason?

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5. Is the "Garlean alarm noise" supposed to be a word, or is it just a weird noise?

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6. Visual round: Why does Urianger have a Gnath gunspear?



(Seen just before handing in the "sign up for a GC" MSQ quest. I realise there probably isn't an 'answer' for this. I'm guessing it's some kind of old weapon model (THM staff?) that eventually got reused for the Gnath, but it's still a bit odd, since Urianger is normally an arcanist.)

[Cilia]

1. The Echo vision with Cid remains unclear. Implicitly, the Warrior of Light was able to reach back through time to give Cid his trademark goggles - though if I recall correctly it was more along the lines of "speaking with Cid's soul" through the Echo back then, which is possible without some sort of time travel (such as Alexander) since it's essentially a dive into someone's memories. (Or: the Echo literally lets you observe with the memories of others, but they usually remain none the wiser unless they also have the Echo. Cid just happens to be astute enough to have figured it out, though it still doesn't explain the goggles.)

2a. Estinien explains that he struggled with Nidhogg for control after his defeat in the DRG 50 quest, but eventually won out.

2b. My reading of that scene is that the Echo was used to reach back into Nidhogg's memories and conjure an image of Haldrath - the real one - however briefly. It's been a long while but if I recall they both wore silver Drachen armor in the brief glimpses we get of them (one during the DRG 50 quest, one after defeating Nidhogg in the Aery).

As for the heresy... most likely he would be forgiven on account of his status and the fact he was obviously not in his right mind.

3. Probably just a joke referring to Rhoswen? Not sure.

4. Most likely just meant to clue people in to the fact that Mih Khetto's Amphitheatre is host to a good number of seasonal events (I took a break from leveling my Dark Iron Dwarf on WoW and jumped right over there to do the event - sure enough, that's where it was).

5. Not ringing any bells, so I'd need a sound bite to try to tell.

6. That's probably because, as I recall, Arcanists were intended to be a part of 1.x (1.0?) albeit using mechanical / clockwork magic staves instead of the grimoires they and their branching Jobs now wield. Urianger still having one in some early 2.0 scenes is probably just an oversight.

[ObsidianFire]

I know the answer (or clarification) for some of these...

6. Archanist's original weapons were not books. They were this weird staff/chronometer thing Arachnists wear on their backs. The first time Urianger pops up in the 1.0 MSQ, he has one of those. So do all the Archanists in Limsa Lominsa at the assesor's office. It's probably a hold-over that was later fixed in-game.

1. This is even more confusing then you think it is. The flashback is of the time when Cid initially escaped the Garlean some 15 years before 2.0. And the WoL somehow showed up and gave Cid his goggles thing. He's wearing them in 1.0. So yeah. What is further complicated matters is that if your character was around in 1.0, Cid doesn't have the amnesia regarding you that everyone else does. So not only does he somehow recognize that you're the one who gave him his goggles 15 years ago, he also realizes your the WoL who defeated Nael and participated in all the 1.0 events. How the WoL did this has never been touched on... yet...

[Iscah]

1. The Echo vision with Cid remains unclear. Implicitly, the Warrior of Light was able to reach back through time to give Cid his trademark goggles - though if I recall correctly it was more along the lines of "speaking with Cid's soul" through the Echo back then, which is possible without some sort of time travel (such as Alexander) since it's essentially a dive into someone's memories. (Or: the Echo literally lets you observe with the memories of others, but they usually remain none the wiser unless they also have the Echo. Cid just happens to be astute enough to have figured it out, though it still doesn't explain the goggles.)

1. This is even more confusing then you think it is. The flashback is of the time when Cid initially escaped the Garlean some 15 years before 2.0. And the WoL somehow showed up and gave Cid his goggles thing. He's wearing them in 1.0. So yeah. What is further complicated matters is that if your character was around in 1.0, Cid doesn't have the amnesia regarding you that everyone else does. So not only does he somehow recognize that you're the one who gave him his goggles 15 years ago, he also realizes your the WoL who defeated Nael and participated in all the 1.0 events. How the WoL did this has never been touched on... yet...

So it's an odd scene even for 1.0 players? And if I remember right from what I've read, it's more clearly established there that the WoL started out as an 'ordinary person' and only gained the Echo recently - is that right?

I just went back and looked at the quest script again. Immediately after identifying you as 'the light', he mentions the Garlean 'third eye' and suggests that it might have helped him recognise you. Or it might just be a lucky guess.

Very strange anyway.

Also while it may or may not count as canon for this, the illustration of twelve-year-old Cid in Tales from the Storm seems to show that he already has his goggles then - they're on the ground to his left.

3. Probably just a joke referring to Rhoswen? Not sure.

That was my best guess, but it doesn't really work - Mordyn specifically says Elezen bride, ie. the bride is an Elezen (at least that's how I would understand that phrasing). Unless that was ambiguous Japanese wording translated the wrong way, it can't refer to Rhoswen.

I remember it seemed a bit odd even when I first started playing - no preconception of the characters, still "learning the setting", just taking the information as it was given to me. Talking to Mordyn is the first time I heard of Carvallain and his bride - then go upstairs, meet Carvallain, and wonder why there's no Elezen woman with him. Assume we'll meet her later if it's a thing worth pointing out.

And since then.... no clarification, no sign she exists, and a kind-of-romantic-subplot with someone else entirely.

Also - I'm sure I've missed some things along the way, but Carvallain doesn't seem all that preoccupied with Rhoswen when they're not interacting. She talks about him a lot more than he talks about her. (From what I can think of: MSQ, Lominsan city sidequests, Hullbreaker Isle, Lv55 CUL quest. I know the Lv65 quest has them too but I haven't quite gotten there yet.)

[DrWho2010]

5. Is the "Garlean alarm noise" supposed to be a word, or is it just a weird noise?

it says "FEEL ME"

[Anonymoose]

#1 The Cid scene is likely much less confusing than people are making it out to be. Think a little less Western for a moment, first. Imagine a culture where "mind" and "soul" are seen as so intrinsically connected that "spirit" is a synonym for both; memory and soul are deeply entwined from this perspective.

The Warrior of Light's Echo resonates with his soul and helps give it strength and put it back in order. Typically the Echo is triggered by someone else having a strong memory; the Echo user is just brought along for the ride for that moment and they share a reverie. The Echo's target often experiences it as staring off into space and getting distracted before snapping out of it (though, rarely, a learned someone will notice you're in their head with them, like Raya-O-Senna once upon a time).

However, Cid didn't have the memories, either, until you put them back in order. It makes it even more likely he'd notice the effects of the Echo somehow. The scene begins with Cid asking Where did I get these goggles? and ends with You handing him his (metaphorical) goggles. His memories.

In all likelihood it's just a visual metaphor as Cid experienced it. Perhaps his third eye really did give him some kind of weird hallucination as you did it, but at the very least I'm fairly confident in the metaphor part.

#2 Recall that Ishgard's scriptures make reference to dragons being able to warp and control the minds of man? They present this as the origin of all heretics, and that's shown to likely not be true, but neither is it entirely a lie. King Thordan I himself was thrown into a ravine by a man overcome by Nidhogg's will. Estinien had a moment of weakness and doubt and the Eye seized on it. If I remember right, that was where the whole ruse started - Estinien's rage was being twisted into a desire to take revenge on Alberic for his part in Ferndale's destruction. Notice that Estinien even cries out with a desire to drink dragon's blood and gain the ability to tear at his enemies with fang and claw. He just lost the mental battle for a moment.

The Haldrath part is a little wonky. In English, Alberic speaks of Haldrath's armor being inside the crystal, as if you have Haldrath's old soul crystal, which would explain you evoking his memory and shade from it, if true, but it doesn't fully line up. German, for example, has Alberic suggest that your strength and charisma have unlocked some secret of the Celestial Dragons that only Haldrath previously understood, and that this evoked Haldrath's memory from Nidhogg's influence over Estinien. (That is the darkness spoken of; Nidhogg was aspected towards lower-case darkness.)

#3 Rhoswen is a Hyur and none of the other languages mention anything about it so I have no idea. Every language but English just says Carvallain's out on the terrace.

Also - I'm sure I've missed some things along the way, but Carvallain doesn't seem all that preoccupied with Rhoswen when they're not interacting.

And yet to hear Eynzahr tell it, as soon as she was in real danger he swooped in and threw her over his chocobo "like a bloody knight of Ishgard", lol.

#4 I never knew quite what to make of that, either. Maybe, "I'm on break right now, but I wish I had the day off..." Is it weird that he's still on break? Sure. But that bookkeeper in Mor Dhona has been looking for that copy of Ona Ramuhda for like 4 years so...

#5 Doesn't sound like anything to me.

#6 In 1.0, these were Arcanist arms and were called "distaffs". They were recycled.

[Iscah]

EDIT INCOMING

*refreshes page repeatedly*

5. Is the "Garlean alarm noise" supposed to be a word, or is it just a weird noise?

it says "FEEL ME"

Ahaha, that is indeed what it sounds like to me as well!!! Which seems rather unlikely to be the actual intent.

[Anonymoose]

One of them led me on a wild dodo chase into disagreeing scripts, sorry, lol.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

5. Is the "Garlean alarm noise" supposed to be a word, or is it just a weird noise?

it says "FEEL ME"

I always thought it says "KIIIL ME" xD

[Theodric]

If the Garlean alarum is putting forth a word, it could very well be in Latin - though it's hard to make out anything concrete. I'm hoping they add an in-game furnishing item that plays the noise when used - it'd be a wonderful addition to the game for the numerous Garlean role-players out there.