Make relics have the same iLVL as the Raid weapons and released at the same time

[whiskeybravo]

Why do you care? Item levels end up about the same in the end anyway, with maybe a 5 item level difference on the weapons and maybe 1 accessory. People like their characters to get stronger. I'm assuming that's partly why people do higher end content to begin with.

I care because rewards should scale with difficulty. Watching netflix while grinding out fate trains isn't difficult. You really want to play a game where people can bot their way to the best item level? I sure don't.

but to play devil's advocate nothing requires higher than an i380 weapon to complete it so why even have higher ilevels if that's the case?

If you have an exceptionally talented group then that's true. Otherwise the majority needs the cushion provided by higher level gear to have a decent chance of clearing.

[Zephera]

I care because rewards should scale with difficulty. Watching netflix while grinding out fate trains isn't difficult. You really want to play a game where people can bot their way to the best item level? I sure don't.

I agree with your point but what about the fact that people can get carried through hard content to higher item levels? They're not putting in effort but still reaping rewards.

[whiskeybravo]

I agree with your point but what about the fact that people can get carried through hard content to higher item levels? They're not putting in effort but still reaping rewards.

You can't control what people do with their time/money. All that can be done is trying to make a system that's fair for everyone to participate in. I think we have a fair system in place so this is kinda side-stepping the topic of whether relics should have the same item level as raid weapons upon release. Paying for a carry or botting through Eureka are of equal offense, but thankfully they are far from the norm.

My counterpoint: find a better group and get better at the game then.

If we didn't have the option of getting better gear, then yea, that's what we'd all be stuck working on.

[Zephera]

You can't control what people do with their time/money. All that can be done is trying to make a system that's fair for everyone to participate in. I think we have a fair system in place so this is kinda side-stepping the topic of whether relics should have the same item level as raid weapons upon release. Paying for a carry or botting through Eureka are of equal offense, but thankfully they are far from the norm.

Only bought it up as the argument from both sides seems mainly to be based around reward for effort made. It's a pretty subjective topic though, people have different standards for what constitutes effort, whether it be through raw difficulty or time consumed.

[Vahlnir]

I care because rewards should scale with difficulty. Watching netflix while grinding out fate trains isn't difficult. You really want to play a game where people can bot their way to the best item level? I sure don't.

If you're going by item levels and power, casual players can end up getting equally powerful gear with little effort in the form of tome gear. The biggest difference between raiding and tome gear is maybe some optimal stats (maybe), +5 on a raiding weapon compared to another, and maybe 1 accessory, probably a ring unless they give us another Proto Ultima-style fight. It just takes a bit longer, but certainly doesn't require much effort to get tome gear and upgrade them fully. This isn't accounting for BiS this and that, mind you, but as far as item level and power goes they are all but one in the same. Raiders just get there sooner.

Nah, good gear doesn't equal good damage. Bad rotation is still bad. I'll take a raider that has an undergeared alt over an overgeared casual player any day.

Bad players will be bad, that much I can agree with. Gear won't help them. However, raiders themselves can potentially be bad. Don't judge a book by its cover.