Make relics have the same iLVL as the Raid weapons and released at the same time

[HyoMinPark]

I totally disagree. I feel like they need to make Relics harder to obtain but also make them the best weapons available. Anyone can learn a dungeon and get a drop relatively quickly as it depends on your luck. Relics should be rare, for those who push themselves to get it. They should also be able to be upgraded with new expansion packs/updates. Kind of like FFXI.

I’d only agree with Relics being “the best” if they required the hardest content in the game to complete. Currently, they don’t, so they don’t need to be “the best”. As time consuming as relic steps can be, they still don’t take nearly the same amount of effort to do as clearing Savage raids do.

As for previous weapons being upgradable through expansion, I don’t have any issue with that. But it could pose a problem for those who haven’t been playing since launch and who haven’t done previous steps. As nerfed as the ARR relic is now, it can still be annoying waiting 20 years for that one FATE in your current book. So adjustments would probably have to be made if we were to shift to a design were prior relics are used for upgrades in new expansions.

[Aquaslash]

As time consuming as relic steps can be, they still don’t take nearly the same amount of effort to do as clearing Savage raids do.

I'd say it varies depending on your skill level. I've lost count of how many people I've seen with Omega and Ultima weapons in Pagos. In fact, I'd say for those people the raids might be easier. At least for gearing purposes.

However, I DO agree with the sentiment that the relics should be all powerful weapons, and if the difficulty to get them needs to be increased to compensate, then so be it. Stuff like Eureka defeats the entire point of Relics. Handing them out like candy after the worst and soulless grinds imaginable is not the way to go.

If anything, we need to go back to having trials like Chimera and Hydra and having to procure trinkets from the toughest bosses to move on. For all you people about to whine that "nooo, that's too hard and unfair"; suck it the hell up and get good. The EX primal weapons are good enough for you.

I'm an adventurer dammit, I'm not content with the roaming bard farting out some dream weapon or however the hell we get savage weapons these days. I want to go on a grand journey and traverse all kinds of hazards and trials to end up with something worth telling a story about. If said trials just happen to involve said farting bard's creations then so be it. Make relics mean something dammit.

[HyoMinPark]

I'd say it varies depending on your skill level. I've lost count of how many people I've seen with Omega and Ultima weapons in Pagos. In fact, I'd say for those people the raids might be easier. At least for gearing purposes.

In terms of the effort it takes to clear Savage, the amount is greater. The Final Omega most definitely takes far more effort to do compared to Pagos; there really is no comparison there. Alphascape is actually challenging; Pagos is brain-dead. I’m speaking about the amount of effort, not the amount of time.

[BlitzAceRush]

In terms of the effort it takes to clear Savage, the amount is greater. The Final Omega most definitely takes far more effort to do compared to Pagos; there really is no comparison there. Alphascape is actually challenging; Pagos is brain-dead. I’m speaking about the amount of effort, not the amount of time.

While I get what you're saying, both can take effort, what would be more accurate is savage takes more skill. If I told you I'd give you an i400 weapon for clearing Savage or for gathering 10,000 fish, both do take effort, one in pushing yourself to do something challenging the other in requiring you to repeat a mundane task an absurd amount of times. You're not just committing time at that point, you're having to make an effort to endure the length of the task.

At that point it becomes a question of what's worth more, skill or time, yes it takes time to be good at something but less for some more for others, an argument could be made that if a relic really was this massive undertaking, not something you could chip away at and eventually get, but something that took so much time that you had to dedicate yourself to it, should it be as powerful?

Skill Vs Time, I feel both can have value and I don't really see anything wrong with there being more than one way to the top, yes some people can't raid but some simply do not wish to and would like another means to acquire that power.

For arguments sake lets say it takes the average person X amount of hours to beat savage and then get their weapon, if someone is willing to work for longer even if the tasks their being asked to do are not as difficult but their willing to put in an equatable amount of effort vs the skill savage players are putting in I don't see a problem with the relic being the same ilvl.

At the end of the day Savage is harder and gives you the accomplishment of having done it, there are people who get their friends to carry them through it, or even buy themselves clears to obtain the same rewards, that however dose not take away from those of you who earned it, neither should someone who chose to take a longer but easier path up the mountain you sprinted up.

That said, as I said above I feel the relic would have to be this very long and slow journey if they decided to do that, it should be time consuming enough that you'd need to commit to it in order to do it, not something you could easily acquire while having time to do other things, if you wanted the power more quickly that should be the incentive to try your hand a raiding.