Make relics have the same iLVL as the Raid weapons and released at the same time

[RyoXander]

Actually there is no Relic-weapon, just an "Eureka-weapon".

And yes, they Eureka-Weapon ist weak, it should be about ~385 same as the primal-weapon. (higher wouldn't be fair for raiders)

But raid-gear should always be the best gear, at least for ~2 months.

I totally disagree. I feel like they need to make Relics harder to obtain but also make them the best weapons available. Anyone can learn a dungeon and get a drop relatively quickly as it depends on your luck. Relics should be rare, for those who push themselves to get it. They should also be able to be upgraded with new expansion packs/updates. Kind of like FFXI.

[HyoMinPark]

I totally disagree. I feel like they need to make Relics harder to obtain but also make them the best weapons available. Anyone can learn a dungeon and get a drop relatively quickly as it depends on your luck. Relics should be rare, for those who push themselves to get it. They should also be able to be upgraded with new expansion packs/updates. Kind of like FFXI.

I’d only agree with Relics being “the best” if they required the hardest content in the game to complete. Currently, they don’t, so they don’t need to be “the best”. As time consuming as relic steps can be, they still don’t take nearly the same amount of effort to do as clearing Savage raids do.

As for previous weapons being upgradable through expansion, I don’t have any issue with that. But it could pose a problem for those who haven’t been playing since launch and who haven’t done previous steps. As nerfed as the ARR relic is now, it can still be annoying waiting 20 years for that one FATE in your current book. So adjustments would probably have to be made if we were to shift to a design were prior relics are used for upgrades in new expansions.

[Lumis_Arvalo]

I totally disagree. I feel like they need to make Relics harder to obtain but also make them the best weapons available. Anyone can learn a dungeon and get a drop relatively quickly as it depends on your luck. Relics should be rare, for those who push themselves to get it. They should also be able to be upgraded with new expansion packs/updates. Kind of like FFXI.

No. If you want FFXI mechanics, go play FFXI. That's not this game, and that's not what relics should be in this game.

People really need to stop trying to jam FFXI's mechanics into this game. "This game should be FFXI-2" is exactly why Eureka was developed and why it sucks so bad.

[RhonanEastarian]

I need the weapon to kill things faster. Okay, you won this time, since Eureka has an ilvl synch, but in general I grind content to get better gear to kill things faster to speed up the grind. There is also more stuff to grind than just Eureka.

Of course I also need it for satisfaction, getting a nice reward at the end of all that grind just feels better. I mean raiders don't need a weapon from turn 4 either, they already have cleared the highest content and you can't progress the next tier with it because of the ilvl increase. So why is the reward for clearing turn 4 of a current raidtier a rel weapon instead of a glamour one?

The way I see it bis weapon drop from turn 4 raid is a gear boost to help out in future raid content? Having your entire raid static aquiring turn 4 raid weapon makes it easier to clear and kill the next raid tier thats released. It is extremely helpfull for re-killing and farming the bosses for the rest of your gear / mount as well. Its a high end reward for high end play wich helps with high end content farming and future progress.

This is not about winning, this is about rewarding different players with different loot and rewards viable and sensible for the content they are doing. You are not partaking in endgame raiding, you dont need it. You are literally admitting you just want it because. Well then get to raiding? Theres been times in my life where I had to quit raiding for periods of time sometimes up towards a year or more. And I never complained about not having bis gear and not having acces to rewards and content exclusive for those dedicated and hard working enough to clear said content.

Sorry but your "just cause" reason is hogwash. You dont deserve it, you dont need it, if you want it you know what you have to do. And if you dont have time or oportunity to do so then too bad thats life.

You dont see me complain I dont get paid as much as my boss at work irl. Different rewards for different work. If I was to get as much or more money paid out then my boss, then my boss would feel cheated and possibly quit to work at ground level and make more. When it comes to gear incentives in MMOs it works the same way for anyone who remotely cares about character growth and strength. If you get the best gear for doing less then why do more? It wont encourage growth or motivate people INTO raiding, most likely it would demotivate alot of people from raiding endgame even if they can. Basicly diminishing the allready small minority dedicated raiding comunity.

And again you and others are asking for this "cause I wants it Q_Q"

You know what the reward is, you know what you have to do to get it. Go do it or stop complaining. And unless you have any valid or logical points to properly discuss and further your case I would highly recomend you dont engage in further talks about this. You come of as very whiny, immature and spoiled.

[Aquaslash]

As time consuming as relic steps can be, they still don’t take nearly the same amount of effort to do as clearing Savage raids do.

I'd say it varies depending on your skill level. I've lost count of how many people I've seen with Omega and Ultima weapons in Pagos. In fact, I'd say for those people the raids might be easier. At least for gearing purposes.

However, I DO agree with the sentiment that the relics should be all powerful weapons, and if the difficulty to get them needs to be increased to compensate, then so be it. Stuff like Eureka defeats the entire point of Relics. Handing them out like candy after the worst and soulless grinds imaginable is not the way to go.

If anything, we need to go back to having trials like Chimera and Hydra and having to procure trinkets from the toughest bosses to move on. For all you people about to whine that "nooo, that's too hard and unfair"; suck it the hell up and get good. The EX primal weapons are good enough for you.

I'm an adventurer dammit, I'm not content with the roaming bard farting out some dream weapon or however the hell we get savage weapons these days. I want to go on a grand journey and traverse all kinds of hazards and trials to end up with something worth telling a story about. If said trials just happen to involve said farting bard's creations then so be it. Make relics mean something dammit.

[HyoMinPark]

I'd say it varies depending on your skill level. I've lost count of how many people I've seen with Omega and Ultima weapons in Pagos. In fact, I'd say for those people the raids might be easier. At least for gearing purposes.

In terms of the effort it takes to clear Savage, the amount is greater. The Final Omega most definitely takes far more effort to do compared to Pagos; there really is no comparison there. Alphascape is actually challenging; Pagos is brain-dead. I’m speaking about the amount of effort, not the amount of time.

[BlitzAceRush]

In terms of the effort it takes to clear Savage, the amount is greater. The Final Omega most definitely takes far more effort to do compared to Pagos; there really is no comparison there. Alphascape is actually challenging; Pagos is brain-dead. I’m speaking about the amount of effort, not the amount of time.

While I get what you're saying, both can take effort, what would be more accurate is savage takes more skill. If I told you I'd give you an i400 weapon for clearing Savage or for gathering 10,000 fish, both do take effort, one in pushing yourself to do something challenging the other in requiring you to repeat a mundane task an absurd amount of times. You're not just committing time at that point, you're having to make an effort to endure the length of the task.

At that point it becomes a question of what's worth more, skill or time, yes it takes time to be good at something but less for some more for others, an argument could be made that if a relic really was this massive undertaking, not something you could chip away at and eventually get, but something that took so much time that you had to dedicate yourself to it, should it be as powerful?

Skill Vs Time, I feel both can have value and I don't really see anything wrong with there being more than one way to the top, yes some people can't raid but some simply do not wish to and would like another means to acquire that power.

For arguments sake lets say it takes the average person X amount of hours to beat savage and then get their weapon, if someone is willing to work for longer even if the tasks their being asked to do are not as difficult but their willing to put in an equatable amount of effort vs the skill savage players are putting in I don't see a problem with the relic being the same ilvl.

At the end of the day Savage is harder and gives you the accomplishment of having done it, there are people who get their friends to carry them through it, or even buy themselves clears to obtain the same rewards, that however dose not take away from those of you who earned it, neither should someone who chose to take a longer but easier path up the mountain you sprinted up.

That said, as I said above I feel the relic would have to be this very long and slow journey if they decided to do that, it should be time consuming enough that you'd need to commit to it in order to do it, not something you could easily acquire while having time to do other things, if you wanted the power more quickly that should be the incentive to try your hand a raiding.

[Tint]

This is not about winning, this is about rewarding different players with different loot and rewards viable and sensible for the content they are doing. You are not partaking in endgame raiding, you dont need it. You are literally admitting you just want it because. Well then get to raiding?

I don't want to be rewarded for raids, I don't like raiding. I want to be rewarded for grinding, because that's what I like doing. I said earlier that the relic don't has to be as good as the raidweapon, but it should be better than the tomestone weapon!

By the way I still have not seen a proper reason why the raidweapon has to be the best weapon in the game, other than "just because". And no, you are not using it to progress the next raid tier. You throw the weapon away and get the new crafted or ex trial weapon.

Chunk off a few seconds from a monster you grind can make a huge difference when you kill thousands of these things. It's as viable as a reason to have a better weapons as doing speedruns and stuff. But in the end it's both "just because".

Grinding and raiding can co-exist, but as long as the tomestone weapon is so easily obtainable and on the same, or even higher level of the relic, what's the point of grinding for the relic?

You know what the reward is, you know what you have to do to get it. Go do it or stop complaining. And unless you have any valid or logical points to properly discuss and further your case I would highly recomend you dont engage in further talks about this. You come of as very whiny, immature and spoiled.

lol

[RhonanEastarian]

I don't want to be rewarded for raids, I don't like raiding. I want to be rewarded for grinding, because that's what I like doing. I said earlier that the relic don't has to be as good as the raidweapon, but it should be better than the tomestone weapon!

By the way I still have not seen a proper reason why the raidweapon has to be the best weapon in the game, other than "just because". And no, you are not using it to progress the next raid tier. You throw the weapon away and get the new crafted or ex trial weapon.

Chunk off a few seconds from a monster you grind can make a huge difference when you kill thousands of these things. It's as viable as a reason to have a better weapons as doing speedruns and stuff. But in the end it's both "just because".

Grinding and raiding can co-exist, but as long as the tomestone weapon is so easily obtainable and on the same, or even higher level of the relic, what's the point of grinding for the relic?

Finaly you make some actuall points I can understand and that makes sense. Tho your "gotcha" way of discussing is annoying to me I can see where you are coming from now.

So basicly on the ground level of things we actually agree and want the same thing. We both want to partake in our own content without feeling forced to do content we dont want to do and not feel like we are performing worse due to not partaking in said content.

Taken my time to think about it, the only way for both of us to be contempt as well as most of the playerbase (I am speculating and not speaking on the behalf of everyone here) would be to further split apart the gear rewards for different content.

How about this, different contents gear rewards giving you passives, stat or ilvl buffs for partaking in the content you are doing. Example, Eureka weapon having 405ilvl and giving you a passive buff either to your spells/skills or a flat stat buff whenever you are inside Eureka or doing open world content like hunts. fates or beast tribe quests etc.

405ilvl raid weapon doing the same for raid and trial duties.

And then you can have the tomestone weapon beeing uppgradeable to 405ilvl and start at 390ilvl without any passive buffs making it the generic weapon good for both but not the best?

This would personalise the rewards to whatever content you are doing while also giving a middle down the road tome weapon reward to help progression with both and not mess with the current gear progression curve for raiders?

A philosophy in MMO game design that I am personaly a big fan off. Giving multiple options for different players and rewards relevant to the content they are partaking in.

I am tempted to further discuss our points that we had, but I dont think it would go anywhere. Its more down to a different point of view from different players, and I`d rather enjoy speculating about possible solutions or changes to the game to make players more happy now that you have given me your point of view and I can actually understand where you are coming from. There is no reason why raiding weapon should be the best for grinding or vise versa. At best you could make the "raiders put more effort inn" aproach but even then effort can both be meassured in skill and time investment.

PS: Ultimate weapons imo should allways be bis for their relevant tier as it requires a way higher time and skill investment then all other content. If you beat ultimate while its current content you deserve to smash any other content you want with a OP weapon for a while.

[AmeliaVerves]

[...] best weapons available [...] for those who push themselves to get it [...]

That's... basically raiding. Like literally. You push yourself through the content to get the best weapon.