Make relics have the same iLVL as the Raid weapons and released at the same time

[Nezerius]

Your initial reply cited wanting the relic to release at the same time as the raid tier. You go on to mention wanting it to be like Heavensward. This never occurred, as demonstrated in my last response.

Wanting the grind to be like Heavensward =/= wanting it to be exactly like Heavensward. You completely missed the point, since I was talking about the fact that the grind shouldn't be limited to one zone (Eureka). My reply even goes on saying "The way SE forced the relic grind into its own instance was a mistake"

Now if you want to argue for relic armor that takes well beyond a month or releases 5-6 weeks thereafter... like Heavensward. It's another argument entirely.

Which is exactly what I'm arguing for? You do know that the time period between an even-numbered and and odd-numbered patch is 3,5-4 months, right? (Referring to this part of my posts: "Make it so a player who grinds regularly will be able to obtain both the weapon and the set about 2-4 weeks before the odd-numbered patch.")

I did no such thing. You're choosing to ignore what I said. There is a cost with the tome weapon. Borrowing the Aether Oil step for example sake. It is far more efficient use of tomes to spend five weeks or less working on the relic, purchasing both your body/legs and another piece than spending them on a five ilvl increase. This renders the tome weapon useless, especially if the relic has more materia slots or customizable stats. The sole exception would be if it had trash stats like no Crit for Bard. The only reason the tome weapon has any value now is due to it being the only means of obtaining a weapon close to the raid weapon. This isn't inherently a problem... if the relic either has a longer grind or doesn't release with the tier itself. Five weeks isn't bad, but you could easily hasten the Aether Oil process through simply grinding dungeons for a week.

Except the grind would be longer than 5 weeks, and the relic would still be 5 iLvls below the tomestone weapons. Reminder that there's 14 to 16 weeks in 3,5-4 months.

I mean if you want the precise same grind for each individual piece, by all means. People tend to complain... which leads to easier and easier alternatives. It's incredibly unlikely the devs would maintain the same lengthily grind for each piece as that slows progression to a halt. But it wouldn't impact anything as it'll take forever. I'll grant you that. Ironically, it wouldn't meet your demand to be more than glamour seeing as by the time you finish... the next patch will be out. So I don't exactly see the argument here.

I'm just saying that the relic armor isn't some unique and special thing that can be exempt from other examples of grinds that happened before its introduction. Besides, one of my posts even stated that players regularly grinding it would obtain it 2-4 weeks before the odd-numbered patch (which, in essence, is "the next patch", after the even-numbered one).

Yes, let's bring back the step nobody liked. Raiders hated it because their gear wasn't even BiS despite it being significantly harder to obtain. And casuals hated it because the grind took forever—to the point the relic ultimately accomplished nothing. There's a reason they moved away from this.

Raiders already have a faster alternative to get better gear, so they're not even the target audience of relic weapons/armor to begin with. Casuals (taking the definition of players who don't play much), shouldn't be the target audience either. It should be for the players that enjoy grinding for a useful reward (which it would be, if they can obtain one job's relics around the halfway point of a patch cycle).

And there are plenty more who won't. Bear in mind, people too lazy to grind and aren't inclined to make gil either. Delaying the relic has always been to allow crafters a chance to sell new gear and to keep Normal Mode as the focus. I don't want the relic to be a glamour stick, but I also don't want it ruining my craft markets.

The delay really isn't all that needed anymore, considering how they changed it so crafted DoW/M sets can be easily HQed on day 1 of the patch. Casuals, that don't like the time commitment of the relic grind nor have the gil for crafted gear, would still go with normal mode gear.

If you want an insanely long grind just so the relic can release immediately. Well, given past history... you're a very small minority. HW did things fine from Midas onward because no, I do not believe the relic should match the raid weapon until near the end of the expansion.

I'd hardly call a 3-4 month grind insane, if you can enjoy the rewards for another 3-4 months after.