Make relics have the same iLVL as the Raid weapons and released at the same time

[Derio]

It should be like the HW relic which was close behind

[AxlStream]

10,000 Pagos Crystals / 250 Lights for 1 weapon with comparable Ilvl and stats to a Raid weapon that is easily obtainable with a static is mundane? lol.

Then get a static and get the raid weapon if it's so easily obtainable.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Let's evaluate why this doesn't happen nor should it. If Pyros released alongside Alphascape with an ilvl 395 weapon and i390 gear

- Suzaku and 4.5 Primal are useless outside mount farming
- Crafted gear markets crash obscenely fast
- Alphascape Normal is obsolete
- Tome weapons are more or less useless
- 24 man gear serves no purpose as a "catch up" drop

In one fell swoop, almost every other avenue of gear progression dies. Even if the relic armor remained i380, that still impacts crafters since it's 100% better. Such a change relies almost entirely on the grind being tediously long and/or poorly designed ala Pagos. Basically, it needs to be so bad people don't want to do it.

And this side steps the actual reason raid weapons are superior. It requires skill. Savage may take less hours overall, but it requires your brain and a considerable amount of corporation from all eight participates. What does Eureka require? A pulse. And even that's debatable...

[MoroMurasaki]

This sort of change would favor the portion of the playerbase that doesn't understand you don't select what attacks to do based on how much you like the animations....

... Which means it'll probably happen -_-;

But in all seriousness if you aren't doing raid content what do you need those stats for? And if you are raiding get the raid weapon and be done with it

I don't understand this entitled mentality.

[Kurando]

Such an idea still wouldn't get me to spend more time in Eureka, it's soul crushing and just doesn't feel that enjoyable. No amount of having something to obtain with the same ilvl as raid weapons would change that. It being higher in ilvl and being Glamour worthy yeah sure it has that extra incentive, but in terms of the stats/power, it's not important as it doesn't effect the rest of content being done in game (or at least for me anyway).

[Aquaslash]

What does Eureka require? A pulse. And even that's debatable...

I highly debate that! Right now, Eureka requires a will of steel and more patience than any ultimate. The place actively sucks your soul away and kills your desire to play the game.

Pagos may just be the worst designed thing in all of gaming. There could be an ilvl 500 katana that guarantees every Kaiten I do causes a direct crit and I'd STILL not wanna go there

I agree with you in principle. It's just the SB relic has been a complete failure and SE has forgotten the whole point of a relic

EDIT: I would also like to point out for the rest of you that raiding and relics are (Normally) not mutually exclusive. Just about every raider will also be working on their relic on the side for a myraid of reasons.

[Nezerius]

Let's evaluate why this doesn't happen nor should it. If Pyros released alongside Alphascape with an ilvl 395 weapon and i390 gear

- Suzaku and 4.5 Primal are useless outside mount farming
- Crafted gear markets crash obscenely fast
- Alphascape Normal is obsolete
- Tome weapons are more or less useless
- 24 man gear serves no purpose as a "catch up" drop

In one fell swoop, almost every other avenue of gear progression dies. Even if the relic armor remained i380, that still impacts crafters since it's 100% better. Such a change relies almost entirely on the grind being tediously long and/or poorly designed ala Pagos. Basically, it needs to be so bad people don't want to do it.

And this side steps the actual reason raid weapons are superior. It requires skill. Savage may take less hours overall, but it requires your brain and a considerable amount of corporation from all eight participates. What does Eureka require? A pulse. And even that's debatable...

Taking the OP's suggestion, and changing the iLvl numbers of the gear to i380, and the weapons to i385 upon obtaining it, with a quest item from v10s to upgrade it to i395. Here's how I'd see the points that you bring up:

- Suzaku and 4.5 Primal are useless outside mount farming
The 'base' relic would be at the same iLvl as the Suzaku weapon. The relic would still be better, due to the extra materia slots, but the Suzaku weapon would be a faster less-grindy option. Alternatively, go back to primals dropping accessories, possibly with a rare chance of a weapon (turning glamour into part of the incentive to farm for the weapons).

- Crafted gear markets crash obscenely fast
With relic gear at i380, it would be the same as the Crafted gear, and would boil down to stat combinations, and overmelding vs. 5 guaranteed melds. They could even raise the relic gear to i385 or 390 with the odd-numbered patch, if they decide to augment the crafted gear again (i380>i390, similar to the i350>i360 thing in 4.3).
Crafted weapons sorta get the short end of the stick here.
All in all, it'd come down to "Get gear upgrades now" vs. "Get gear upgrades after a grind", with Alphascale normal being sort of a middle ground.

- Alphascape Normal is obsolete
Both of these would depend on how much of a grind it'd be to get the relic gear/weapon. People who want a less grindy way of gearing would have this as an option, along with the crystalloid from v12.

- Tome weapons are more or less useless
In this scenario, the tomestone weapon would still be 5 iLvls higher than the relic, although its strength should be relatively the same (due to the extra materia slots). Players who grind out the relic fast enough, will be able to obtain a weapon slightly better than the tomestone weapon, before other players get their Scaevan Esters from v11s.

- 24 man gear serves no purpose as a "catch up" drop
Considering what their stance on the "greed-only" thing was, with how they saw 24-man gear to be "catch up" gear for alt jobs, I don't think this would be affected all that much with an increase in relic iLvl
Even then, if they decide to go with raising the relic gear to i385/i390 in the odd-numbered patch, it'd still only be slightly stronger than the 24-man gear.

The relic being a huge grind doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, if it's a grind that actually feels rewarding once the player has finished it. This is why it's important to keep it closer to the raid weapon iLvl, and add it earlier. A big reason why I never went from the Pagos weapon was because of when they added it. I just knew that by the time I had obtained it, I'd only be able to enjoy it for maybe a week or two before being able to just grab a higher iLvl crafted or primal weapon.

Raid weapons requiring skill and relic weapons only requiring a pulse has been a thing since post-Titan relic progression, which also isn't a bad thing. It gives players who are unable to raid the ability to work on progressing their character in a meaningful way. Heck, having a quest item drop in v10s to increase the relic to i395 might even be enough incentive to dip their toes into the more midcore part of savage raiding. i395 would still be 10 iLvls below the raid weapon (or closer to 5 when taking the extra 3 relic melds into account).

But in all seriousness if you aren't doing raid content what do you need those stats for?

Because progressing your character is fun.

[Wijnand]

Taking the OP's suggestion, and changing the iLvl numbers of the gear to i380, and the weapons to i385 upon obtaining it, with a quest item from v10s to upgrade it to i395. Here's how I'd see the points that you bring up:


Because progressing your character is fun.

Progressing is only fun when your actually putting a challenge to do. Doing a relic is easy getting a savage weapon is far more bothersome unless you have a all star crew who is willing to drag you through it. Relics were always a complementary thing that eventually would be equal/ on par with the savage gear at the end of the expac. most of the people got multiple weapons for the glamour.

However to want something out of the gate that is equal to savage gear is completely ridiculous. it would kill any reason to do savage cause savage is stressful at times specially when you pug it. It once took me 14 hours to get one kill in kefka only to see one person run off with all the stuff. It was bad luck and lag sure but still. Relics are consistent its just that pagos really screwed the pooch in this regard. I refuse to do pagos I got my pld cricket bat with horrible stats and I put it in my retainer.

if you want equal weapons to savage either do savage or wait for 4.5.5 when everything gets equalized.

[MoroMurasaki]

Because progressing your character is fun.

So is using fancy glam. Take the stuff off the mog station and let us grind for it.

See how well that works?

[RareItems]

Why do the raiders think that if the Relic weapon is the same level as the Raid weapon, there would be no incentive to raid?

Like why would you care if someone got a Ilvl405 Relic weapon that glows after that person took an entire month of grinding to make? It takes absolutely nothing from anyone who raids. In fact, obtaining a weapon thru raiding is and was always easier if you have a static, since once you know the mechanics, you can just farm it.

The best weapons in FFXI are relics. The Bosses in Escha zones drop some freebie weapons that count as Raid weapons but are no where near as powerful as the relics or as what FFXI calls them "R.E.M.A" weapons.

Having the Relics/Eurekan weapons at the same ilvl as Raid weapons, gives all players something to progress and log in for. Reducing it as a glamour item killed it.

Not everyone likes to raid. Just like not everyone likes to do Relics/Eureka. Raiders have something to do every week. Give the casuals something to do as well, progression wise that is actually worth the time doing not just for glamour.