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  1. #1
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    Aerlana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OurMom View Post
    He didn't create housing for everyone to have one, he intentionally created housing for FCs and then said he was going to add separate personal housing.
    And ... he didnt do a separate personnal housing. we wait again after this promise (one of the quote in my signs...)

    Originally, personnal housing was intend for 6 month after FC housing (so for 2.3)
    When the patch was soon, he said he had to delay personnal housing (no matter ok. really) and gave us personnal room instead of. (so personnal room ARE NOT personnal housing)
    2.38, personnal housing did came in servers. and this time, housing died. not enough houses, amny FC dont have their own. And in HW release, 3x12 ward... 2 years after in SB release 3x12 ward... 4.1 yay, 12 more wards and burning forums due to the bullshit...
    Then now... 4.2 came with now 4x18 ward and the promise to get more ward as patch will progress... (4.3 and 4.4 no ward... )


    Appartment are NOT the personnal housing, was never announced this way, was a cheap way to solve people wanting house...



    THe personnal housing was promised to be not "with" FC housing (other ward, other system like instanced, i dont know we never knew what was in his mind). And he did change his mind "to get living neighborhood" Simply, he did consider if there were FC housing wards, and personnal housing wards, the second kind would be empty from any life, and he did want to avoid it, so he did add the personnal housing in the already existing ward (1=>6) and added ward either for FC and personnal. (just 4.2 did a small change on it.)
    *look at the 72 ward* ... Yeah, right, neighborhood are really living ...


    But, at least now, he admits that the destroy system of houses are for people paying subscription...
    (9)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    Personal Housing
    While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.
    Quote Originally Posted by GILDREIN View Post
    Q: Will there be any maintenance fees or other costs for housing, besides the cost of the land and house?
    A: [...]these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  2. #2
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    Kirsten_Rev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerlana View Post
    But, at least now, he admits that the destroy system of houses are for people paying subscription...
    In fairness to Yoshi-P, they really don't have a lot of choice right now. Under the current system, it's essential that SE ensure at least a nominal level of turnover so that people on crowded servers don't feel completely cut off from housing.

    My greater issue, personally, is not with the demo system - it's with the general responses by Yoshi-P, and what I perceive to be a relative lack of empathy and understanding. I have to question whether or not he understands that owning a house is a major goal for a lot of players, a goal that they are not able to properly achieve, particularly if they are seeking medium or large plots. Implicit in this, of course, is the fact that players who do own medium or large plots already can feel trapped into their subscription, because they likely won't be able to get a plot back in the future.

    To make matters worse, empathy is free. It doesn't cost a dime for Yoshi-P to respond sympathetically to housing or Glamour concerns, or to acknowledge player perspectives. Consider if his response had been the following:

    "I understand that homeowners feel trapped into maintaining their subscription when they may otherwise let it lapse. I want to assure them that we don't like the demolition system either - but we have to ensure some level of turnover so new players get a chance to own a house, too. Rest assured, we're always evaluating the various systems within FFXIV, and if we have an opportunity to expand housing availability enough for everyone to own a home who wants one, we'll be discarding the demolition system right away."

    Speaking personally, this response would have been aces for me. Despite committing to nothing, it would have assured me that Yoshi-P understood. I'll settle for that. Most people, provided they understand the desires of their customers, will eventually work to meet them. I have no doubt that Yoshi-P would as well. But it seems that at every turn, he demonstrates that he doesn't even know what we want, what our pain points are - and that's a much more problematic situation.
    (13)

  3. #3
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    Aerlana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev View Post
    In fairness to Yoshi-P, they really don't have a lot of choice right now. Under the current system, it's essential that SE ensure at least a nominal level of turnover so that people on crowded servers don't feel completely cut off from housing.
    i was one of people really anjoying this reboot, full of hope. There were many promises, or even more some commitment. And it makes a shining future for the game. During ARR i did a lot of defense for FFXIV... the only thing i did not defend was atmas... For all other, i did say the game, the team, their leader needed time to fix themselves... But most promises and commitment was broken, or cheated.


    Housing... it is full of trick, broken promises, the content you can get if you are lucky.
    The "destroy system" was a COMMITMENT not a simple promises "but this is a thing of the past " he said, it is hard words. he did really show those things as bad things to do.

    Yes, in the current case, it is needed. But the "turnover" is not the main reason, in this finaland interview he did a link between "no sub" and "take appartment". and finally the promises before 4.2 to get more wards in other patches, where it is? Lets go to nothing until 5.0 or 5.1? Why not adding any single ward during HW also?...

    And finally, the destroy system should been avoid. How? make a REAL delay to personnal housing. Yes i am happy to get my two houses (stop, i have 2 account è_é). But when i see all the shit ...
    I mainly thing about Free Companies... which cant get houses even with the destroy system... (prove this system doesnt do his work )
    They did knew how much houses they could add. and simple mathematics did allow them to know it wouldnt be enough for FC + personnal... they did a real, big mistake. With no reason, no excuse.

    If we did get appartment in 2.38 instead of houses. most matters around housing wouldnt exists... I wouldnt cry if he said "we dont have ability to release a personnal housing where each player gets 1 house. we prefer delay this to an unknown patch where it will be avaible. please understand. But here is some appartments in addition of personnal room." Sad but... better than what we have now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev View Post
    Consider if his response had been the following:
    I speak not a lot there, more on french forum. and i say one thing there many time :

    The matter of FFXIV is not "the cash shop in subscription MMORPG" "the treadmill" "eureka is diadem" or many other things.
    I dislike all those things are just symptom of one big matter : the way Yoshida considers the game and the customers.

    And those interviews, all the time we facepalm ourself while reading the latest stupidity he said like those... it is just the proof that all other thing i did list (and other i didnt thing while typing) are just different symptom of one ill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleo View Post
    And now imo they just want to stick with this system because otherwise it would look like they have made a mistake..but this will only get worse.
    One time will come the game will stagnate (not a lot new player all time) and they will add more and more wards. And so, not a need to destroy system. The matter is : it won't erase years of shittyness ! Like raubahn Xtrem in SB pre-release, i am sure they did nothing else than waiting the people go to sleep... the solution came itself (and then, pippin Xtrem did short show. and another on other patches... ...)

    But for housing, during HW, (2 years with NO wards added ! ) i many time said the matters was personnal housing, and i would applause a cancellation of it. YES players/customers would be angry to not being able to use houses anymore. yes. me first, i have two account from ARR and both did get houses. But prefered loosing this, to see all player on the same line, seeing all FC getting houses. And getting improvment on appartment (doing size x3. or being abe to get different size. )

    I continue, today, to find this better that what we have. I did stopped one of the houses, and would cry to loose my M houses... but would take the biggest appartment instead of. (it could be even appartment with stairs...)
    (2)
    Last edited by Aerlana; 10-22-2018 at 09:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    Personal Housing
    While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.
    Quote Originally Posted by GILDREIN View Post
    Q: Will there be any maintenance fees or other costs for housing, besides the cost of the land and house?
    A: [...]these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  4. #4
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    Alleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerlana View Post
    But for housing, during HW, (2 years with NO wards added ! ) i many time said the matters was personnal housing, and i would applause a cancellation of it. YES players/customers would be angry to not being able to use houses anymore. yes. me first, i have two account from ARR and both did get houses. But prefered loosing this, to see all player on the same line, seeing all FC getting houses. And getting improvment on appartment (doing size x3. or being abe to get different size. )
    I agree with a lot of your points but them taking out personal houses (and taking them away from people) would have been a catastrophe. (IMO) Heck even when they for a short amount of time introduced the new housing rules they did not take away the houses from those that owned too many.

    For me they should introduce private instanced housing. With all the sizes and zones available. It would be awesome if we could buy a L house in each zone since its instanced thus people could own quite a lot of houses, while at the same time the wards still exist but instead of taking the houses away they just stop people from buying more private ones for the future and maybe give a compensation for everyone that switches their private house from wards directly to an instance. On top of that give FCs access to workshops in some city states and gardening plots in Gridania for everyone to use.

    This way a FC does not need a house to get access to all the things behind it, people can all have as many big houses as housing zones exists. (Right now that would be like 4 large houses) And they would not lose it and have a huge gil sink on top of that. I would gladly give up my personal and FC house for that. But I would not give them up for something like an apartment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahati View Post

    I wish people who complain about having to stay subbed because they are bored/hate the game would just unsub already and give someone who still loves the game a chance at homeownership. SE makes the terms and we either abide by them or we disgree and take our money/time elsewhere.
    I am quite sure that those that complain that the timer is bad if they want to take a break are just exactly wanting that: A break. Which means that they plan to return to the game. I mean we are not talking about a timer that is 90 days long or more, but something as short as 45 days which amounts to a bit more than one month breaks. Seeing how a patch takes at least 3 months to come out than this is way too low. Someone could have played the game for years constantly, own a house but just want to take one break between two patches. They simply cant..because that would be too long and they will lose their house that they have might used quite a lot and had planned to use it again after the break. Why would someone else deserve it more than them?
    (8)
    Last edited by Alleo; 10-23-2018 at 06:20 PM.

  5. #5
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    Aerlana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alleo View Post
    I agree with a lot of your points but them taking out personal houses (and taking them away from people) would have been a catastrophe. (IMO) Heck even when they for a short amount of time introduced the new housing rules they did not take away the houses from those that owned too many.
    If they did it, it would be a hard decision, with a lot angry people, and even if i think it would be 1-2 week of raging on forum, it wouldnt be a so hard result on long term. And i just said "personnal houses are matter" not "forbidden to give players anything else as substitute or compensation"
    There is as you say the instanced housing for personnal houses as idea. or working better on appartment (lets say, S like now. M = 4 time the size we have now, and L = 2 level appartment... those are example)

    ALSO, they wouldnt do it ("cancel" Personnal Houses after releases it) for a reason even more silly : they did add personnal housing, knowing it would create all those matters. How i know? I think they are able to do simple mathematics (they know the activity on each servers, the population of each)
    If you do a such big mistake, you dont want to go back after... Even if you have an idea to compensate...


    Note : that instanced housing/appartment for CHARACTERS (not FC) would be a REAL way to get living neiborghood. i think we have too much houses for only FC now. (i think without proof, but... i dont think many servers get more than 4k activ FC... ... )
    More wards = more spread of population = less living wards. But wards defined only with FC needs, it will concentrate people (a FC is generally more than 1 guy...) AND the instanced link to the same wards (like appartment we have now) could add even more people in the area. (because it will add all non-FC people in those)

    So, the same thing solve 2 matters... sad to not doing it v_v"


    (simple mathematics i speak : )
    (they know the activity on each servers, the population of each (with inactiv character that could become activ), and the number of houses is easy to count... 540 at personnal houses release, 2160 during HW, 2880 at 4.1, 4320 today. For activity, luckybansho helps us to get an idea of how much character are activ per server... 550k activ people, 66 servers => 8.3k per server.)

    About simple mathematics. we can easily count how much houses :
    1080 at personnal houses release (or not sure if houses 31=>60 did existe at 2.38 or added just after but not a real difference)
    2160 during HW,
    2880 at 4.1,
    4320 today

    They know how much character, FC. they can have a quite excellent idea of the activ part.
    With luckybansho scan, we can see 550k activ character (600+ on period with the 96h free login... so i am more looking on the others results)
    66 servers => 8k5-9k activ character per server (activ from luckybansho : getting at least 1 more minion/mount/level in any job between 2 scan)

    In reality, most japanese server are under this, and european/american server are many time over (with high spike for ragnarok/balmung and other like those) ... But easier ton consider same for all

    We see that we have 1 house now for 2 activ character. and there is the FC matter then...

    SO YES they did the mistake knowing it was a mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bahati View Post
    I wish people who complain about having to stay subbed because they are bored/hate the game would just unsub already and give someone who still loves the game a chance at homeownership. SE makes the terms and we either abide by them or we disgree and take our money/time elsewhere.

    The destruction is for making people paying subscription (hard to translate other way the answers in this interview... and remember they did ask the questions due to the "take a break" that Yoshida himself invite us to do ! )
    AND to get a TURNOVER on houses possession.

    so "stop playing with this, please, leave it a little to this other child, he wants to play with it too"
    "YEAH, it is MY TURN to play with it"





    But as i said : those answers, the housing, and other matters in the game are only different symptoms of one ill. If the Yoshida mentality, and his team mentality about one of the matters change to fit more to what we, players and customers, are waiting, many other thing will also change. It is my thoughts. The "ill" is, for me, they dont think enough with player's mind.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
    Personal Housing
    While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.
    Quote Originally Posted by GILDREIN View Post
    Q: Will there be any maintenance fees or other costs for housing, besides the cost of the land and house?
    A: [...]these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

  6. #6
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    Alleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerlana View Post
    If they did it, it would be a hard decision, with a lot angry people, and even if i think it would be 1-2 week of raging on forum, it wouldnt be a so hard result on long term. And i just said "personnal houses are matter" not "forbidden to give players anything else as substitute or compensation"
    I am quite sure that taking away personal houses without something else for it (like instanced personal houses) would create more fire than just a bit of 1-2 week raging. Remember how the forum was on fire when Shirogane started and people were not able to get plots for different reasons? How other sites talked about this and how they even gave us much more wards (thus houses) afterwards? That was not a small fire and they needed to react to that. Now I cant see how taking away someones house because SE made a mistake by creating a bad system would be good. Honestly it feels like the majority of the houses are privates ones thus a huge amount of people would lose their house. That would be such a huge PR disaster and who knows how many people would simply stop their sub. If they did that and force people out of it I would probably also stop playing because I would feel that this would not be respectful at all. Thats why I pointed out that any change should have good instanced housing before that and be a choice that people can make. (Some do enjoy the ward system for their personal houses)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahati View Post
    It would seem SE would rather give the opportunity to have a house to someone paying them rather than someone who is not paying them. Is this that wild of a concept considering there is not enough housing available for all?
    So someone that has played the game for years and takes one longer break is less important than maybe a person that plays it for a couple of months and get a house but might also stop after a time? Or what about those that do pay but cant log in for certain reasons? I mean if its only about paying then people could at least still buy a sub and not lose it but you have to be in the game on your plot on top of that. And there are cases that would lose their house even if they are paying for it..
    (3)
    Last edited by Alleo; 10-24-2018 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #7
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    LineageRazor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev View Post
    "I understand that homeowners feel trapped into maintaining their subscription when they may otherwise let it lapse. I want to assure them that we don't like the demolition system either - but we have to ensure some level of turnover so new players get a chance to own a house, too. Rest assured, we're always evaluating the various systems within FFXIV, and if we have an opportunity to expand housing availability enough for everyone to own a home who wants one, we'll be discarding the demolition system right away."
    Unfortunately, this is not desirable, either. Even with infinite housing available, if folks were allowed to keep their houses no matter how long they were away from the game, pretty soon you'd wind up with whole wards consisting of one or two active players and dozens of empty, abandoned houses. Say what you like about whether or not wards are lively places, one way to ENSURE they become dead graveyards is to allow players to maintain their houses indefinitely. Of course, if we had infinite wards, the option opens up of allowing a player to RESTORE their house in a different ward, once they return to the game. Currently, that is not an option. (And, without infinite wards, I doubt it's a realistic idea.)

    I have no beef with the concept of demolition. I feel it is a necessary and desirable part of the housing system. My concern is with the method SE has chosen to measure whether a house is abandoned - whether the player sets foot in it. There are many situations in which a player would LIKE to maintain their house, but be UNABLE to do so. Injury, sickness, or military deployment being some good examples. I believe that maintaining an active subscription should be the sole requirement. If a player is paying for the game, then it's reasonable to maintain their stuff. If they stop paying, then why jump through any hoops for them?
    (4)

  8. #8
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    Kirsten_Rev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    Unfortunately, this is not desirable, either. Even with infinite housing available, if folks were allowed to keep their houses no matter how long they were away from the game, pretty soon you'd wind up with whole wards consisting of one or two active players and dozens of empty, abandoned houses. Say what you like about whether or not wards are lively places, one way to ENSURE they become dead graveyards is to allow players to maintain their houses indefinitely. Of course, if we had infinite wards, the option opens up of allowing a player to RESTORE their house in a different ward, once they return to the game. Currently, that is not an option. (And, without infinite wards, I doubt it's a realistic idea.)
    This would be one route to go down. I suppose I should clarify: a proper response would involve a promise to get rid of the current* demolition system as soon as possible. FFXIV, by Yoshi-P's own admission, is not built around continuous play, particularly for people who have dozens of hours a week to commit to a game. It stands to reason that game systems should avoid punishing people for sporadic subscription drops wherever possible.

    I'd point out too, that most Wards are currently dead as-is. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of time I've seen people in my little corner of The Lavender Beds since I got my house, which was about a year and a half ago now. The current demolition system likely contributes to this issue, actually, as players who are 'effectively' not playing nevertheless maintain a subscription and house for fear of not being able to get one back upon their return.

    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    I have no beef with the concept of demolition. I feel it is a necessary and desirable part of the housing system. My concern is with the method SE has chosen to measure whether a house is abandoned - whether the player sets foot in it. There are many situations in which a player would LIKE to maintain their house, but be UNABLE to do so. Injury, sickness, or military deployment being some good examples. I believe that maintaining an active subscription should be the sole requirement. If a player is paying for the game, then it's reasonable to maintain their stuff. If they stop paying, then why jump through any hoops for them?
    For the same reason that they maintain character levels, mount and minion lists, Mog Station items, Glamours, etc: if returning players have little incentive to resubscribe, then the game's bottom line will suffer. Speaking personally, if any life event pushes me to abandon my subscription long enough to lose my house, I'll most likely never be coming back. It is a significant in-game possession for me; in many ways *the* most significant since, unlike character levels or gear, a house sits outside the progression treadmill. It's not in SE's interest for a short-term break to turn into a permanent subscription loss.

    I'm curious as to why you think demolition is desirable, by the way. I agree that it's necessary right now from a supply limitation point of view, but there are better ways of maintaining populated wards for those who want living neighborhoods (as I said above, I strongly suspect that the current demolition system actually worsens this issue). Thoughts?

    Edit / Addition:

    I think it's fairly privileged statement to suggest that players be able to keep their housing if they have a life event that impacts their available play time (injury, sickness, etc.), but not make allowances for players who have financial circumstances arise that force them to cancel the subscription outright for a period of time. I certainly will always be able to afford XIV personally, but I know many people for whom that's not always the case.
    (6)
    Last edited by Kirsten_Rev; 10-23-2018 at 12:57 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev View Post
    This would be one route to go down. I suppose I should clarify: a proper response would involve a promise to get rid of the current* demolition system as soon as possible. FFXIV, by Yoshi-P's own admission, is not built around continuous play, particularly for people who have dozens of hours a week to commit to a game. It stands to reason that game systems should avoid punishing people for sporadic subscription drops wherever possible.
    I think you're reading way too much into Yoshi's statement. While he encourages people not to get so caught up in the game that they neglect their family, friends, or personal well-being, don't read into that that he expects players to drop their subscriptions to play other games. Take a break from the game? Sure. Take a break from their subscriptions? No MMO producer would ever encourage such a thing - at least, not as more than a propaganda stunt. Companies that provide MMOs want players to be constantly subscribed to THEIR game, not constantly flitting off to other games as the whim hits them.

    For the same reason that they maintain character levels, mount and minion lists, Mog Station items, Glamours, etc: if returning players have little incentive to resubscribe, then the game's bottom line will suffer. Speaking personally, if any life event pushes me to abandon my subscription long enough to lose my house, I'll most likely never be coming back. It is a significant in-game possession for me; in many ways *the* most significant since, unlike character levels or gear, a house sits outside the progression treadmill. It's not in SE's interest for a short-term break to turn into a permanent subscription loss.
    Character data is inactive data. It can be stored on a dusty spool of magnetic tape for decades at low cost and no inconvenience to other players. Housing is a horse of an entirely different color, for as long as it remains a limited resource.

    As for your claim that you'd not return to the game if you lost your house - well, it sounds like you have a very loose attachment to this game. I've seen many in the forums complain about losing their house upon returning to the game - but none claimed to have thrown up their hands and quit because of it. They all decided the game was worth playing, even with the loss of their house. In all likelihood, returning players who use the status of their house as a deciding factor are a lesser population than players who get frustrated because there's no housing available and quit for that reason.

    I'm curious as to why you think demolition is desirable, by the way. I agree that it's necessary right now from a supply limitation point of view, but there are better ways of maintaining populated wards for those who want living neighborhoods (as I said above, I strongly suspect that the current demolition system actually worsens this issue). Thoughts?
    I take the opposite view. By making housing a volatile resource that requires care and maintenance, it discourages people who might buy a house simply because buying a house is something they can do. The folks who buy a house are those who actually care about the house, and will therefore be more likely to visit it, keep it up with furnishings, and so on and so forth. They will actually visit the thing from time to time, and in so doing will help keep the neighborhood lively.

    As for better ways than demolition to clear out dead houses, what do you propose? Should neglected houses be shuffled around to other districts periodically? This would be functionally similar to my idea of reinstating housing when a player returns to the game - and is just as dependent on having unlimited wards to shuffle houses to...
    (2)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    I think you're reading way too much into Yoshi's statement. While he encourages people not to get so caught up in the game that they neglect their family, friends, or personal well-being, don't read into that that he expects players to drop their subscriptions to play other games. Take a break from the game? Sure. Take a break from their subscriptions? No MMO producer would ever encourage such a thing - at least, not as more than a propaganda stunt. Companies that provide MMOs want players to be constantly subscribed to THEIR game, not constantly flitting off to other games as the whim hits them.
    This is certainly possible. However, if this is the case, SE is flatly not earning my subscription. The content design for FFXIV isn't deep enough to occupy the roughly 30 hours of play time per week that I have available to me - nowhere close. XIV's content aims to provide something of interest to everyone in a broad audience, which naturally means they don't tend to provide a lot of interest to any particular group. I've always interpreted Yoshi-P's statements on this matter within this context, which imply to me that he's aware people will likely take breaks, and aims to generally make this painless for players (if not something he'd recommend).

    Incidentally, XIV's lengthy efforts to ensure players can readily catch up to the current content cycle also provide evidence that they're aware players will likely take breaks. So whether or not Yoshi-P was recommending subscription breaks from time to time, I think he's aware they're inevitable, and housing is the one area in which SE imposes significant penalties on players for doing so. It stands to reason a long-term goal should be to eliminate this anomaly.

    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    Character data is inactive data. It can be stored on a dusty spool of magnetic tape for decades at low cost and no inconvenience to other players. Housing is a horse of an entirely different color, for as long as it remains a limited resource.

    As for your claim that you'd not return to the game if you lost your house - well, it sounds like you have a very loose attachment to this game. I've seen many in the forums complain about losing their house upon returning to the game - but none claimed to have thrown up their hands and quit because of it. They all decided the game was worth playing, even with the loss of their house. In all likelihood, returning players who use the status of their house as a deciding factor are a lesser population than players who get frustrated because there's no housing available and quit for that reason.
    Character data isn't exactly inactive. At any time, someone can choose to resubscribe and be accessing that data within five minutes. It's very much stored in a ready state. It's really not so different. I agree that it being a limited resource imposes a different set of considerations for now: my point was that SE should have a long-term goal of eliminating this resource limitation.

    As for the other, I'm sure you're right for some. I do wonder how long those returning players stick around though, particularly if they can't find a new house to purchase. In any event, I can only speak definitively on my own perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    I take the opposite view. By making housing a volatile resource that requires care and maintenance, it discourages people who might buy a house simply because buying a house is something they can do. The folks who buy a house are those who actually care about the house, and will therefore be more likely to visit it, keep it up with furnishings, and so on and so forth. They will actually visit the thing from time to time, and in so doing will help keep the neighborhood lively.

    As for better ways than demolition to clear out dead houses, what do you propose? Should neglected houses be shuffled around to other districts periodically? This would be functionally similar to my idea of reinstating housing when a player returns to the game - and is just as dependent on having unlimited wards to shuffle houses to...
    Firstly, I think the volatility argument is a little bit unrealistic. I'd agree if there were multiple meaningful Gil sinks in XIV, but I know for myself, the first house I bought was sort of a 'why not' decision. I similarly snagged a large for my small friends-only FC as a 'why not' decision. I had enough Gil, I couldn't see that there would ever be a use for it, and so I snatched up property. If, on the other hand, there were a half-dozen other solid uses for my money, I'd have only purchased housing if I really prioritized housing over everything else - thereby lending weight to your volatility argument. I honestly didn't consider the subscription implications at the time of purchase, because I wasn't bored at that point in my XIV career. It's only now that the house is an integral part of my in-game experience, an experience I want a break from, that I'm chafing.

    As for better approaches to neighborhoods, I think the key is an opt-in system. SE built the housing system without regard to player preference, and I think that's why the idea of neighborhoods fell apart. One player might just like interior decorating, but nevertheless is a hermit; another might just want convenient merchants; a third might want access to the FC Workshop or advanced actions. No matter what systems SE imposes - demolition, monthly rents, what have you - the neighborhood feeling was doomed the split-second SE implemented a system that forced neighborhood types together with hermits who just wanted a house.

    For neighborhoods to truly work, I think SE must make it voluntary, a choice that does not offer extra supplies of housing or other benefits. These neighborhoods should actually carry with them mechanisms to ensure turnover of people who are not fully adhering to the neighborhood goal (demo system for inactivity; maybe monthly rents in Gil). I'd suggest they also block out the ability to restrict access to your house's interior areas, so as to foster more of an open feel. Anyone welcoming the idea of a neighborhood can elect to purchase (or move) their house into this system as availability arises.

    Moreover, had SE designed this system in a more intelligent and forward-thinking fashion, these neighborhoods would have been the only wards. All other housing would have been individual private instances. 'Demolition' in a neighborhood sense would simply relegate you back to an individual instance. Nobody seeking a relatively private house would be forced to participate, and turnover would be ensured to limit the number of inactive players at any given time. Even at this late stage, however, the introduction of instanced housing coupled with new, harsher requirements on staying in the Wards would quickly improve the neighborhood feel. Couple that with some structured game events at peak evening hours within the neighborhoods, and I think we'd have a remarkable setup that punishes nobody while ensuring a truly social housing system for the vast majority who want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahati View Post
    It would seem SE would rather give the opportunity to have a house to someone paying them rather than someone who is not paying them. Is this that wild of a concept considering there is not enough housing available for all?
    It's a bit of a wild concept, and not a pleasant one. MMOs have long implemented various bonuses as carrots to encourage players to stay subscribed (content updates, consecutive subscription bonuses, discounts for larger chunks of subscription time purchased, etc.), but I've never seen one use a stick. Certainly it's SE's decision if they want to try this, but I know if at any point I discovered it was an intentional decision rather than the artifact of a bone-headed development choice some years ago, I'd quit on general principle, and likely never buy another SE MMO again. I expect entertainment companies to compete to earn my dollar, rather than threaten punishments of a sort if I don't continue to buy into their ecosystem.
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    Last edited by Kirsten_Rev; 10-24-2018 at 04:34 AM.

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