When should I drop tank stance?

[Transient_Shadow]

Hello all. So I've been learning tanking and other classes of late and recently had to fill in for tank in a dungeon. I'll admit I'm not the best tank and one of my party was gracious enough to give me some pointers.

One of the things they mentioned is that I could drop my tank stance once I established aggro with trash pulls and bosses. I tried to emulate their advice during the dungeon but was struggling on when to drop stance and focus on dps.

I don't suppose anyone could give me some pointers? I'm working on all tank classes so advice on any of them is welcome.

[Elkanah]

It really depends on the boss you're up against, and what kind of gear (you vs everyone else) is wearing. Anyone wearing level 50 gear on a 50 instance, while everyone is wearing 300+, is gonna make it hard on you, and might be better staying in tank stance. Most times, doing 2-3 rounds of the hate combo will be more than enough. But again, this is dependent on what you're fighting and what gear you're going up against. I've had tanks lose hate when I'm on BLM70 in an level 50 instance, dropping tank stance. But most times, they're not even wearing the current best ilvl for their level (to also be fair). Some jobs can use hate management tools, but they prefer those deeps numbers lol. Trash pulls, I'll usually do a full round of hate combos and then drop tank stance after 1-2 times around on trash mobs. If you're not comfortable with either or, then it's fine to just stay in tank stance.

[Lambdafish]

Honestly? You are the only person who can answer that. You should be very aware of the damage you are taking and gauging what mitigation and enmity level you need. If you know the fight/dungeon well, and are able to anticipate the damage you will take, and your enmity is good, then you are safe to drop tank stance. Make sure your healers are ok with that too.

[Hierro]

I'm gonna cut to the chase and tell you when:

when your gear is up to par with the dungeon's level AND after you've used your defensive cooldowns, you may turn off tank stance.

If you die for whatever reason despite doing as told, then it is the healers fault and you reserve the RIGHT to yell at them.

[Valcarde]

when your gear is up to par with the dungeon's level AND after you've used your defensive cooldowns, you may turn off tank stance.

Why would you turn tank stance off *after* you've used your defensive cooldowns?
If you're planning on turning off Tank stance, saving those cooldowns for big damage outside of the stance is better.

As far as turning off tank stance, do it when you're feeling comfortable with how much incoming damage there is, how much trust you have in the healer, and depending on your class/size of the pull. You'll get more of a feel for it with experience, don't be afraid to shuck off the stance on bosses to start. Get a good agro lead and drop tank stance, go into your DPS rotations, but keep an eye on that threat. If the DPS are creepig up on you even with the use of Enmity-increasing oGCD's then either do an Emnity combo or drop into tank stance for a little bit, but the best way to learn is to get out there and get hit.

[Dogempire]

I'm gonna cut to the chase and tell you when:

when your gear is up to par with the dungeon's level AND after you've used your defensive cooldowns, you may turn off tank stance.

If you die for whatever reason despite doing as told, then it is the healers fault and you reserve the RIGHT to yell at them.

Don't yell at the healer, I shouldn't even have to explain why you shouldn't.

[Hierro]

Why would you turn tank stance off *after* you've used your defensive cooldowns?

Consider that our friend is asking about a dungeon scenario in specific. Therefore, if we are talking about becoming an effective tank, then it stands to reason that we must learn to tank large mobs in DPS stance, because that IS the pinnacle of dungeon tanking. The largest source of damage in a dungeon are large pulls of mobs, so it also stands to reason THAT is where we must concentrate our cooldown use. There are no dungeon bosses that warrant cooldowns, let alone tank stance-- it's laughable to suggest otherwise.

As for why you would do so *after*? Becuase you want a smooth transition in how much damage you're taking. You wouldn't want to gather a large mob, turn off tank stance, take a huge spike in damage, then turn on cooldowns. You want to gather mobs, turn on cooldowns, then turn off tank stance to begin your AoE rotation. This causes the damage taken to be done so at a steady pace that will not overwhelm nor surprise the healer.

[Valcarde]

As for why you would do so *after*? Becuase you want a smooth transition in how much damage you're taking. You wouldn't want to gather a large mob, turn off tank stance, take a huge spike in damage, then turn on cooldowns. You want to gather mobs, turn on cooldowns, then turn off tank stance to begin your AoE rotation. This causes the damage taken to be done so at a steady pace that will not overwhelm nor surprise the healer.

I mis-parsed your statement - I read it as 'after the cooldowns have expired'.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Ideally, you switch after a single aggro combo. This assumes you have adequate gear relative to your party and they're considerate enough to being utilizing their own aggro tools. I recommend doing the standard one aggro combo/switch stances and see how long it takes before people start catching up. If it's fairly quick, you'll need to perform two aggro combos before dropping stance.

[Lynesse]

Ideally, you switch after a single aggro combo. This assumes you have adequate gear relative to your party and they're considerate enough to being utilizing their own aggro tools. I recommend doing the standard one aggro combo/switch stances and see how long it takes before people start catching up. If it's fairly quick, you'll need to perform two aggro combos before dropping stance.

This, pretty much.

For bosses, I start in Shield Oath, then Shield Lob -> Circle of Scorn -> Flash -> Aggro combo 2x -> Sword Oath + Rampart -> Goring Blade combo under Fight or Flight -> Royal Authority combo 2x.

This is what I try to do. Sometimes I only use one aggro combo. Sometimes I fumble things and start the Goring Blade combo too early. Oops.

I find that people almost never use their aggro tools. This keeps me ahead, and it is noticeable how much damage I do in Sword Oath. I do occasionally replace Royal Authority combos with Rage of Halone combos if I feel uneasy.

I also try to preempt add phases by switching back to Shield Oath before the adds spawn -- but I have successfully grabbed and held aggro in Sword Oath. I've also been unsuccessful, which is why I started trying to preempt things.

What Hierro said about cooldown usage is absolutely, 100% right.