Make relics have the same iLVL as the Raid weapons and released at the same time

[RareItems]

I think it will give everyone something to work on, and give them a reason to play a bit more .

Having the option of grinding for the Relic/Eurekan weapon released at the same time of the new Raid wing would definitely increase activity.

To balance it, Dev's can initially make the requirements for completing the Relic/Eurekan weapons Incredibly high. Like 10,000 Pagos Crystals and 250 lights. Then reduce it each patch.

[Magic-Mal]

You really are just trying to grate peoples' nerves with these topics aren't you..

[Nora_of_Mira]

You really are just trying to grate peoples' nerves with these topics aren't you..

I didn't see one "xD" so my nerves are only slightly grated.

[Tint]

The relic should be ilvl 395 and released together or shortly after the raids. And in the odd numbered patch it shold be upgraded to 405.

I mean you can get an ilvl 390 weapon from normal mode raid and an ilvl 400 weapon from the third savage raid turn. Granted, only one of the 8 people get the upgrade item, but a static is done in 8 weeks and has the option to get a ilvl 405 weapon in the next turn.

Why is the relic so weak in comparsion? It's just laughable!

[Duskane]

The relic should be ilvl 395 and released together or shortly after the raids. And in the odd numbered patch it shold be upgraded to 405.

I mean you can get an ilvl 390 weapon from normal mode raid and an ilvl 400 weapon from the third savage raid turn. Granted, only one of the 8 people get the upgrade item, but a static is done in 8 weeks and has the option to get a ilvl 405 weapon in the next turn.

Why is the relic so weak in comparsion? It's just laughable!

they will be same as Suzaku then 4.5+ they will be i400 and i405,
I don't have a problem with them being lower ilevel they are still perfectly usable weapons.
tome weapons are a bit shifty if you don't do savage (plus theres only like 2 worth it this patch)
waiting 7 weeks for a weapon that cost 1000 tomes 3 weeks worth saving then a even longer wait to upgrade them easily with raid coin by that time the final relics will probably be out.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Let's evaluate why this doesn't happen nor should it. If Pyros released alongside Alphascape with an ilvl 395 weapon and i390 gear

- Suzaku and 4.5 Primal are useless outside mount farming
- Crafted gear markets crash obscenely fast
- Alphascape Normal is obsolete
- Tome weapons are more or less useless
- 24 man gear serves no purpose as a "catch up" drop

In one fell swoop, almost every other avenue of gear progression dies. Even if the relic armor remained i380, that still impacts crafters since it's 100% better. Such a change relies almost entirely on the grind being tediously long and/or poorly designed ala Pagos. Basically, it needs to be so bad people don't want to do it.

And this side steps the actual reason raid weapons are superior. It requires skill. Savage may take less hours overall, but it requires your brain and a considerable amount of corporation from all eight participates. What does Eureka require? A pulse. And even that's debatable...

[MoroMurasaki]

This sort of change would favor the portion of the playerbase that doesn't understand you don't select what attacks to do based on how much you like the animations....

... Which means it'll probably happen -_-;

But in all seriousness if you aren't doing raid content what do you need those stats for? And if you are raiding get the raid weapon and be done with it

I don't understand this entitled mentality.

[Aquaslash]

What does Eureka require? A pulse. And even that's debatable...

I highly debate that! Right now, Eureka requires a will of steel and more patience than any ultimate. The place actively sucks your soul away and kills your desire to play the game.

Pagos may just be the worst designed thing in all of gaming. There could be an ilvl 500 katana that guarantees every Kaiten I do causes a direct crit and I'd STILL not wanna go there

I agree with you in principle. It's just the SB relic has been a complete failure and SE has forgotten the whole point of a relic

EDIT: I would also like to point out for the rest of you that raiding and relics are (Normally) not mutually exclusive. Just about every raider will also be working on their relic on the side for a myraid of reasons.

[Nezerius]

Let's evaluate why this doesn't happen nor should it. If Pyros released alongside Alphascape with an ilvl 395 weapon and i390 gear

- Suzaku and 4.5 Primal are useless outside mount farming
- Crafted gear markets crash obscenely fast
- Alphascape Normal is obsolete
- Tome weapons are more or less useless
- 24 man gear serves no purpose as a "catch up" drop

In one fell swoop, almost every other avenue of gear progression dies. Even if the relic armor remained i380, that still impacts crafters since it's 100% better. Such a change relies almost entirely on the grind being tediously long and/or poorly designed ala Pagos. Basically, it needs to be so bad people don't want to do it.

And this side steps the actual reason raid weapons are superior. It requires skill. Savage may take less hours overall, but it requires your brain and a considerable amount of corporation from all eight participates. What does Eureka require? A pulse. And even that's debatable...

Taking the OP's suggestion, and changing the iLvl numbers of the gear to i380, and the weapons to i385 upon obtaining it, with a quest item from v10s to upgrade it to i395. Here's how I'd see the points that you bring up:

- Suzaku and 4.5 Primal are useless outside mount farming
The 'base' relic would be at the same iLvl as the Suzaku weapon. The relic would still be better, due to the extra materia slots, but the Suzaku weapon would be a faster less-grindy option. Alternatively, go back to primals dropping accessories, possibly with a rare chance of a weapon (turning glamour into part of the incentive to farm for the weapons).

- Crafted gear markets crash obscenely fast
With relic gear at i380, it would be the same as the Crafted gear, and would boil down to stat combinations, and overmelding vs. 5 guaranteed melds. They could even raise the relic gear to i385 or 390 with the odd-numbered patch, if they decide to augment the crafted gear again (i380>i390, similar to the i350>i360 thing in 4.3).
Crafted weapons sorta get the short end of the stick here.
All in all, it'd come down to "Get gear upgrades now" vs. "Get gear upgrades after a grind", with Alphascale normal being sort of a middle ground.

- Alphascape Normal is obsolete
Both of these would depend on how much of a grind it'd be to get the relic gear/weapon. People who want a less grindy way of gearing would have this as an option, along with the crystalloid from v12.

- Tome weapons are more or less useless
In this scenario, the tomestone weapon would still be 5 iLvls higher than the relic, although its strength should be relatively the same (due to the extra materia slots). Players who grind out the relic fast enough, will be able to obtain a weapon slightly better than the tomestone weapon, before other players get their Scaevan Esters from v11s.

- 24 man gear serves no purpose as a "catch up" drop
Considering what their stance on the "greed-only" thing was, with how they saw 24-man gear to be "catch up" gear for alt jobs, I don't think this would be affected all that much with an increase in relic iLvl
Even then, if they decide to go with raising the relic gear to i385/i390 in the odd-numbered patch, it'd still only be slightly stronger than the 24-man gear.

The relic being a huge grind doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, if it's a grind that actually feels rewarding once the player has finished it. This is why it's important to keep it closer to the raid weapon iLvl, and add it earlier. A big reason why I never went from the Pagos weapon was because of when they added it. I just knew that by the time I had obtained it, I'd only be able to enjoy it for maybe a week or two before being able to just grab a higher iLvl crafted or primal weapon.

Raid weapons requiring skill and relic weapons only requiring a pulse has been a thing since post-Titan relic progression, which also isn't a bad thing. It gives players who are unable to raid the ability to work on progressing their character in a meaningful way. Heck, having a quest item drop in v10s to increase the relic to i395 might even be enough incentive to dip their toes into the more midcore part of savage raiding. i395 would still be 10 iLvls below the raid weapon (or closer to 5 when taking the extra 3 relic melds into account).

But in all seriousness if you aren't doing raid content what do you need those stats for?

Because progressing your character is fun.

[Wijnand]

Taking the OP's suggestion, and changing the iLvl numbers of the gear to i380, and the weapons to i385 upon obtaining it, with a quest item from v10s to upgrade it to i395. Here's how I'd see the points that you bring up:


Because progressing your character is fun.

Progressing is only fun when your actually putting a challenge to do. Doing a relic is easy getting a savage weapon is far more bothersome unless you have a all star crew who is willing to drag you through it. Relics were always a complementary thing that eventually would be equal/ on par with the savage gear at the end of the expac. most of the people got multiple weapons for the glamour.

However to want something out of the gate that is equal to savage gear is completely ridiculous. it would kill any reason to do savage cause savage is stressful at times specially when you pug it. It once took me 14 hours to get one kill in kefka only to see one person run off with all the stuff. It was bad luck and lag sure but still. Relics are consistent its just that pagos really screwed the pooch in this regard. I refuse to do pagos I got my pld cricket bat with horrible stats and I put it in my retainer.

if you want equal weapons to savage either do savage or wait for 4.5.5 when everything gets equalized.