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  1. #11
    Player
    Zephanoa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    301
    Character
    Vaeldus Lunarys
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Technically THE SSS dummies are good enough. You don't need hard numbers, though they are nice. It is assumed that if you can clear x dummy in a certain amount of time then as long as you can maintain that and not die you will win the fight.
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player
    Shiroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    871
    Character
    Ohlala Chica
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    SE wastes resources / cash for an app noone is using...., but can't give console players a parser -_-
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,837
    Character
    Scarlett Dzian
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 76
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerfworthy View Post
    Without using parses. Is it possible? I know of SSS, but the pass/fail doesn't help me very much. I don't want a "good enough" check, I want to know if my rotation is improving etc.
    SSS does tell you if your rotation is improving.. It's pretty much what it's designed to do. It's not a difficult tool to use.

    If say you've gone from barely clearing a dummy with maybe 1-2 seconds left on the clock to clearing that dummy consistently with 10 or 12 seconds left then it's an obvious sign of improvement. it's measurable and quantifiable. If you then beat that dummy with 15-16 seconds left. then that's even better. So it's actually very easy to see if your rotation is improving or not. It's only a binary pass fail if you treat it like one.

    Also in some ways SSS is actually a better comparative tool than a parser because in SSS the only variable is you. Parsers however have an almost infinite number of variables.
    So if Jack can smash a dummy 10 seconds faster than James it's a much clearer comparison than say.. Jack parsing 500 DPS higher at the end of a fight than James.

    In the case of parsers you might actually find James was playing better even if he's 500 dps behind Jack on parses. Jack probsably had a better comp and more DPS buffs than James did.

    At the same time if you came out of a fight today doing 500 dps more than you did yesterday in the same fight that doesn't mean you've improved. You might actually have done worse. because again it could be any number of variables that account for the differences.
    (4)
    Last edited by Dzian; 10-19-2018 at 01:12 AM.

  4. #14
    Player
    Lastelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    937
    Character
    Lastelli Sungsem
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephanoa View Post
    It is assumed that if you can clear x dummy in a certain amount of time then as long as you can maintain that and not die you will win the fight.
    That assumption is wrong though. First of all, it is completely invalid for 6 jobs, namely healers and tanks, since aggro, mitigation and healing are ignored in SSS.
    Second, a 3 min dummy session is not representative of anything since damage is highly influenced by crit, direct hit and proc rate in such a small time frame(and you can even summon a chocobo to help you out lol).
    Finally, the implicit assumption that players will be able able to replicate whatever they did in SSS in actual high difficulty content is so asinine that it makes the whole system useless.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Dualgunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,942
    Character
    Lilila Lila
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastelli View Post
    That assumption is wrong though. First of all, it is completely invalid for 6 jobs, namely healers and tanks, since aggro, mitigation and healing are ignored in SSS.
    Second, a 3 min dummy session is not representative of anything since damage is highly influenced by crit, direct hit and proc rate in such a small time frame(and you can even summon a chocobo to help you out lol).
    Finally, the implicit assumption that players will be able able to replicate whatever they did in SSS in actual high difficulty content is so asinine that it makes the whole system useless.
    I think it should at least be granted that Stone Sky Sea is a good starting point. The ability to reset cooldowns at will makes it way more convenient for practicing the muscle memory of which buttons are where and what order one wants them to be pushed in.

    I spent 4 hours at the dummy when I first picked up mch, just picking up the basics. Noting when my gauge was where and how to take advantage of the resources at my disposal.

    Did this help first contact with an actual raid? Not in the slightest, initially. But it helped me adapt much faster to the raid because of the Stone Sky Sea practice I'd done showing me the gist of how I want my cooldowns interacting.

    Tl;dr: its a single tool. To be effective it needs to be used with multiple tools (like a guide). Even then it won't prepare you for raid very well, but the groundwork is set if Stone Sky Sea is used well.
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player
    Lastelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    937
    Character
    Lastelli Sungsem
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Dualgunner View Post
    Tl;dr: its a single tool. To be effective it needs to be used with multiple tools (like a guide). Even then it won't prepare you for raid very well, but the groundwork is set if Stone Sky Sea is used well.
    Yes, it's good for training your opener and rotation up to 3 min, but that's it. It would be much more useful to have a potency-based SSS. Do your correct rotation flawlessly and you clear 2-3 seconds before the time limit. They wouldn't even need to update it every time a new trial/raid is released and it would be much more informative for the player. With the current system people can just wait to have full ilvl 400 gear after the next 24 man raid is released, clear o12s SSS 1 second before the time limit and think they are "good" enough. Clearly, that is not the case.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Dualgunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,942
    Character
    Lilila Lila
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Even potency based would end up getting affected by stats like spell/skillspeed, especially jobs like MCH who live or die on their skillspeed, but I get the gist of what you're saying.

    I won't argue that SSS is useful beyond that. It's just my anecdote that learning those 3 minutes, looking at as many variable scenarios and gauging every single visual stimulus I could to create shorthands for myself in a solo environment I can reset at will, I wouldn't have been able to adapt MCH to savage nearly as quickly as I did.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Scoutacus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1
    Character
    Scoutacus Itzurnia
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Maybe a necro, but you COULD try going to a forum of advanced players (Like Balance) and ask if someone there can take a look at you. But really, there's not much else you can do.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    Nerfworthy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Amaurot
    Posts
    524
    Character
    Luka Larkspur
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 88
    Thanks for the responses guys. Some of the advise is really good and helped me see things a different way. I really appreciate it!
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arohk View Post
    A healers job is to dps and keep the party alive while doing so, you got the wrong idea about healers.

  10. #20
    Player
    Berethos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,195
    Character
    Celie Lothaire
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
    SE wastes resources / cash for an app noone is using...., but can't give console players a parser -_-
    In-game parsers aren't generally a thing in any MMO, at least not ones provided by the developers. "Damage Reports" that just tell total damage are a little more common...and even this game has that in PvP (such as in the frontline report at the end).

    But a damage parser that tracks the way ACT does here or Recount does in WoW is almost always handled by mods, not the developers.

    Some games simply have significantly better mod-support (or mod-support at all).
    (0)

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