A self-improvement tool is needed in this game, especially for end game

[OurMom]

Yes. You can even talk about it, as long as you don't use it to harrass other players

So I guess we'd need to figure out what SE considers harassment.

If I'm in an end game dungeon and a dps is doing like 2k damage, I wonder if saying something politely would count as harassment or not.

[Shurrikhan]

This might be a bit off topic but did they ever give a reason why you can't discuss parsing in PF?

Someone expecting you to carry them while they underperform may feel slighted when you imply you haven't the incentive or time to meet the needs of people who refuse to meet the requirements set for them by kicking them and attempt to have the party or party leader banned for breaking TOA by using a third-party tool. So, when people check the accuracy of their assessments before kicking people, rather than booting people on suspicion, they make sure to keep their data hidden.

[KaivaC]

Because parsers are technically against the ToS. Yoshi P has taken the "don't ask, don't tell" stance though. Basically, if you parse...don't talk about it. Ever.

Indeed. Really, it depends on how it's worded and the players in the party. Saw this a few weeks ago in O9S. A SAM and BLM were causing us to miss the orb check, and the party leader said that they needed to pick it up otherwise they'd have to kick and replace. SAM picked it up.

It can work, but people in savage need tougher skin and not be so quick to cry foul when low DPS is mentioned. Harassment is harassment, yes, but we shouldn't be in the current situation where players are having to coddle in savage because of a fear of getting reported and banned. Contrary to the buzz words often used on the forums, there is a middle ground to pointing out things like this that literally can cost an entire party a waste of a run. Food and pots are expensive, you know.

[Sorimachi87]

It can work, but people in savage need tougher skin and not be so quick to cry foul when low DPS is mentioned. Harassment is harassment, yes, but we shouldn't be in the current situation where players are having to coddle in savage because of a fear of getting reported and banned. Contrary to the buzz words often used on the forums, there is a middle ground to pointing out things like this that literally can cost an entire party a waste of a run. Food and pots are expensive, you know.

This is already present in normal content and duty finder groups. I can understand Alphascape, i can understand certain high lvl trials but i can't understand low lvl dungeons or mandatory content in general...

But yeah i am just a filthy casual that tries to give their best showing every single run. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt ..

[Dzian]

I think the casual side of the playerbase needs to grow a thicker skin and learn to stop whining when somebody gives them general tips about their job. This coddle mentality is probably part of the reason why the devs are so insistent on simplifying things and trying to bridge the gap, when all it does is just irritate players. Players need to stop being so quick to call harassment when they are told in nicer words that their playstyle is harming the group as a whole. And SE needs to stop developing current level 70 content (like what we got prior to 4.4) that coddles braindead play.

We'll probably get a parser the day people stop misusing the term casual as a blanket statement for bad players. There's more than a few casual raid groups out there and even some casual ultimate groups.

On on the flip side there more than a few hard core players out there that are just plain terrible.

The problem is SE is to afraid to tell anyone they failed and need to try harder. And that's in everything not just group content but solo as well. Rather than say try a bit harder you'll do it. It's here have so much echo you literally cannot lose this time.

[Dualgunner]

An official parser would do more harm than good because of how people are. I have nothing against the idea of a parser, but I know how people can be. And this is something that shouldn't happen officially. The game needs to do a better job at teaching people what they're doing wrong though, there's no doubt about that.

"I know how people can be" will never not be an anecdote. I grant you that it's your opinion, and your anecdote can fuel your opinion; it's just not a very convincing argument.

[Vahlnir]

"I know how people can be" will never not be an anecdote. I grant you that it's your opinion, and your anecdote can fuel your opinion; it's just not a very convincing argument.

Yet it's still a sound argument.

[Lastelli]

Yet it's still a sound argument.

Well, it's a deeply paternalistic argument that can be easily extended to an indefinite number of other features, ultimately claiming that any kind of interaction between players should be banned because of how it can potentially result in harrassment.

[Dualgunner]

Yet it's still a sound argument.

Let's explore this a bit.

If your argument is:

A misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful. Toxic people will misuse tools. Therefore, toxic people misusing the tool will cause more damage than the tool can help people.

It's valid. If the premises are true, then yes, your conclusion is also true.

It is not, however, sound. You cannot prove the first premise, that a misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful.

[Vahlnir]

Let's explore this a bit.

If your argument is:

A misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful. Toxic people will misuse tools. Therefore, toxic people misusing the tool will cause more damage than the tool can help people.

It's valid. If the premises are true, then yes, your conclusion is also true.

It is not, however, sound. You cannot prove the first premise, that a misused tool is more damaging than it is helpful.

My experiences from other games (WoW being the biggest one) tell me that the potential for abuse could be quite high. You're right, I don't know that for sure. But judging from what I've seen in the past? Yeah, I'd bet gil on it. People will be people. Always.