Tank Stance Redesign

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The difference doesn't matter. Lowering someone's ceiling doesn't change the range of a poor player from a good player.

If your max is 5000 now, but was then reduced to 4000, your lower end is going to proportionately drop.

If dropping that damage capacity makes you quit the job, you didn't like it to start with.

That's silly way of looking at it. Arbitrarily lowering the ceiling in the manner proposed takes away better player's ability to optimize. Even in a dungeon, I want to squeeze how as much as possible from the jobs I play. Locking me into Tank Stance is the developer's condescending way of saying, "No, no. That's enough damage." Not to mention, as Spectre noted above, Warrior in particular, is boring when locked in Defiance.

No matter how you slice it, this slows down the run and forces people into a sub-optimal position because the devs didn't like us tanking outside Tank Stance yet couldn't be bothered to make Tank Stance worthwhile.

[347SPECTRE]

The loss would be closer to 1000-1200 dps. That and not to mention defiance WAR is really boring on single target.

[shao32]

How WAR is boring in defiance? They gauge generation is the same, the rotation is the same, you replace fell cleave for inner beast and add unchained to the buttons you have to press, the rest it's just the same.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

How WAR is boring in defiance? They gauge generation is the same, the rotation is the same, you replace fell cleave for inner beast and add unchained to the buttons you have to press, the rest it's just the same.

Because the fun part is maximizing damage. At least for me. If mechanics or outgoing damage incentivized Defiance, that's a different story. On the other hand, if I'm forced into it, that's just the game punishing me because the devs want to make things even easier. It's the same reason I dislike dungeons that forced small pulls (Hullbreaker HM comes to mind). Technically, nothing changes about the dungeon itself. I just can't pull more than four mobs that do trivial amounts of damage, thus it's boring.

It's entirely subjective though.

[Shurrikhan]

How WAR is boring in defiance? They gauge generation is the same, the rotation is the same, you replace fell cleave for inner beast and add unchained to the buttons you have to press, the rest it's just the same.

Defiance is fun when and only when you survive as a result of sacrificing your own damage. It's a balance, a compromise, and a bit of a gamble until the fight is wholly known, from which you are trying to cheat out a greater-than-sum equilibrium. That's what makes either stance interesting -- because the other exists. Defiance allows for powerful tools, but comes at a cost. Minimizing that, coming nearer and nearer the event horizon, is what makes Deliverance entertaining. It's not the Fell Cleaves. They entertain as well as they can only when held in contrast to each other.

[shao32]

Defiance is fun when and only when you survive as a result of sacrificing your own damage. It's a balance, a compromise, and a bit of a gamble until the fight is wholly known, from which you are trying to cheat out a greater-than-sum equilibrium. That's what makes either stance interesting -- because the other exists. Defiance allows for powerful tools, but comes at a cost. Minimizing that, coming nearer and nearer the event horizon, is what makes Deliverance entertaining. It's not the Fell Cleaves. They entertain as well as they can only when held in contrast to each other.

but is in esence the same rule as the other 2 specially since the other 2 are more punished for it, the question was why WAR in particular is boring on defiance when the job dont change at all, not about the whole thing about optimize you dps stance and how rewarding feels bcs thats pretty clear and i agree with it.

[Shurrikhan]

but is in esence the same rule as the other 2 specially since the other 2 are more punished for it, the question was why WAR in particular is boring on defiance when the job dont change at all, not about the whole thing about optimize you dps stance and how rewarding feels bcs thats pretty clear and i agree with it.

No one said Defiance itself was or would be dull. They said being limited to JUST Defiance would be incredibly dull, just as SITTING in Defiance is now.

[347SPECTRE]

How WAR is boring in defiance? They gauge generation is the same, the rotation is the same, you replace fell cleave for inner beast and add unchained to the buttons you have to press, the rest it's just the same.

This is just me, but staying in defiance for too long in a single target situation just feels wrong.

[shao32]

So in resume is a question of numbers more that gameplay mechanics itself.

It's still a pretty valid point of why tank stances sould be change.

[Big-Isaac]

It seems to me like the stance dancing is there to paper over the fact that the act of tanking in this game is A) very simple and B) not particularly ... tank-y.
My interpretation of what a "tank" is supposed to do comes down to keeping the target's attention away from the rest of the party and staying alive. This is the tank jobs' purpose in FF14 as well, but unfortunately neither of those two things provides much of a challenge. Enmity is borderline a non-factor and so long as you follow the mechanics of the fight like everyone else, you shouldn't have trouble staying alive, either.

So with the two major aspects of tanking out of the picture, what does your gameplay focus on? DPS
Hence why staying in tank stance feels so bad for so many people - the tank stance's contribution to your survivabiltiy and enmity output is largely unnecessary while kneecapping the DPS you contribute to the raid.

IMO the best way to go would be to cut the stances altogether and shift the tanks' gameplay more towards mitigation. DPS should only be a by-product of the tanking gameplay, secondary in concern to minimizing and smoothing your damage taken.