Non-binary option for characters, please?

[Lastelli]

rofl

It really looks like you have a very shallow understanding of this game. You do realize that without raiding, crafting and gathering would be totally pointless, right?
Again, you do you remember what happened in 3.1, right? The raiding scene almost died, and the crafting and gathering scene died with it. Did you ever wonder why they decided to introduce the savage and, later, the ultimate difficulty?

Come on, it's not so hard.

But the point remains. Savage and ultimate content are the sole reason why a good chunk of the player base keep playing after reaching lvl 70. Pronoun choice is not.

[kamenkuro]

rofl


First of all, I don't think I'm being any more "combative" or "disrespectful" than many, many others in this thread have been. Second of all, I'm not here to gain anyone's approval.

You understand that that sort of attitude is why people don't agree with you. You present an idea that is unpopular and you become the anecdotal evidence that people use to frame people that have that same view as one from people who are unreasonable.

[Bahati]

I really can't stand people who need to "identify" with their characters in MMOs. Get a grip and stop living vicariously. This is a fantasy setting with fantasy concepts, races and lore. This is a story that has little to do with real life. Stop trying to insert yourself, your political views and your personal crusades into it.

OP can identify however they want but their character, in this game, will be male or female. If needed, pick whichever gender identity offends you the least and move on.

[Fynlar]

Right, you're just trying to change society by calling people uncultured and uncivilized.

I'm not trying to "change" anything, that's ridiculously futile. I'm just giving my opinions, like just about everyone else here.

I must say though, you people do seem quick to make the (somewhat bizarre, imo) logical leap that just because I call something your native language does as silly, behind the times, and potentially harmful to a subset of people... that it must be some sort of personal affront against the native speakers of that language. I hear people remark about how stupid English is all the damn time and I don't get all uppity and offended over it. Most of the time I even agree with it.

What I said is that you can use "gender" in any case you can use "sex", but it is not correct the other way around.

It doesn't matter what way you spin it, here. It is not correct because they are not the same things.

I'm not saying that what that person is saying won't be correct in a decade, two, five. I'm saying that it is NOT CORRECT NOW.

It's correct now. The erroneous sources just need to update themselves.

Even if they don't, that doesn't stop what's correct from being correct.

It really looks like you have a very shallow understanding of this game. You do realize that without raiding, crafting and gathering would be totally pointless, right?
Again, you do you remember what happened in 3.1, right? The raiding scene almost died, and the crafting and gathering scene died with it. Did you ever wonder why they decided to introduce the savage and, later, the ultimate difficulty?

Come on, it's not so hard.

But the point remains. Savage and ultimate content are the sole reason why a good chunk of the player base keep playing after reaching lvl 70.

rofl

The game didn't change at all for me and my friends. It didn't change for most people playing the game. Life went on just fine and game didn't die regardless of whatever debacles were going on with Alexander, which I don't even know about because that's just how important they were.

To put it bluntly, you (raiders) aren't that important.

Pronoun choice is not

I was never trying to argue that it was.

[Lastelli]

It's correct now. The erroneous sources just need to update themselves.

Even if they don't, that doesn't stop what's correct from being correct.

"it's correct because I say so and everyone who disagrees is wrong, once again, because I say so."

This is pure gold.

[KisaiTenshi]

Do you not realize...

Yet you decided to be personally offended that I posted anything and when you added nothing to the conversation for that entire page of the thread. My point, since you didn't actually read it was that this thread is troll bait, and was definitely straying off topic into the typical trolling nonsense at the time I posted, so just skip or ignore the posters that aim to derail it.

I realise people have strong opinions, but it still boggles me how spiteful some of these posts are.

Even if you disagree with the idea of it yourself, you can still respect that the other person truly thinks of themself as the gender they claim to be, and address them in the way they ask to be addressed.

I also find it very hard to believe that people would "choose" to identify in a way that opens them up to such abuse, if they didn't really believe it to be true.
...

People are spiteful about this, because they go "oh no, real life politics in my entertainment, ew, get it away", despite all story telling is political by nature. Stories tell us about people who do bad or stupid things and how they became better people by realizing the err of their ways, or they go die on that hill as the big bad. Even a story where the protagonist ends up worse off in the end, doesn't come about without the protagonist learning to be better in some way. Everyone is the hero of their own story.

Gender neutral pronouns, or handling English dialog in such a way is not really that hard, and people who believe it's hard are just grumpy that they lose a way to tease people because now it's an insult to not consider the gender of the speaker as possibly being neutral or ambiguous. Think about how masculine and feminine behaviors are called out for being frivolously not-normal when done by someone who certainly does identify as one gender, it just happens to not be the gender they present as normally.

That's the entire thing about NB. It's less about mis-gendering like it would be for trans, and more about not assuming any specific gender in stories and conversations when none is necessary. It's a relatively recent thing, and there will be pushback because people think it's silly, until they get shouted down for not taking it seriously. It's also much less excusable, because singular 'they' has always been usable and is existing in English, and doesn't make conversations awkward unless the person is present, because then you should be using their name anyway.

From a gaming perspective, the easiest way to write dialog where the protagonist can be any gender is to use the gender neutral language by default, and never use a specific pronoun except where the speaker would never could never use it because they speak in a certain formal way (eg "My Lady", "Master <family name>", "Madam", "Sir") or diminutive way (-chan and -tan suffixes with all names, including themselves.) You often see this in subtitles in foreign language media where someone refers to themself by their own name/nickname instead of "I", where they really said it with diminutive gendered language. In that language it's supposed to come off as cute, but in English it is anything but.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

I'm not trying to "change" anything, that's ridiculously futile. I'm just giving my opinions, like just about everyone else here.

You're basically saying anyone with a different opinion from yours is ignorant, among other things. That pretty much seems like a "change or else you'll stay ignorant"

I must say though, you people do seem quick to make the (somewhat bizarre, imo) logical leap that just because I call something your native language does as silly, behind the times, and potentially harmful to a subset of people... that it must be some sort of personal affront against the native speakers of that language. I hear people remark about how stupid English is all the damn time and I don't get all uppity and offended over it. Most of the time I even agree with it.

Mostly because a certain person seems to think that language is made by scholars in ivory towers, and not through natural evolution by the speaking masses. If you're saying that about a language, you're saying that about the language speakers, because they're the ones who make it.

It doesn't matter what way you spin it, here. It is not correct because they are not the same things.
It's correct now. The erroneous sources just need to update themselves.

Even if they don't, that doesn't stop what's correct from being correct.

It doesn't matter what you think. Until the majority accepts it, it's not correct. Not because a minority wants it to be.

[Velhart]

[pclarkson85]

rolling my eyes so hard right now.

[Fynlar]

"it's correct because I say so and everyone who disagrees is wrong, once again, because I say so."

This is pure gold.

Glad to see we agree.

You're basically saying anyone with a different opinion from yours is ignorant, among other things. That pretty much seems like a "change or else you'll stay ignorant"

The sex/gender thing isn't an opinion.

Mostly because a certain person seems to think that language is made by scholars in ivory towers, and not through natural evolution by the speaking masses. If you're saying that about a language, you're saying that about the language speakers, because they're the ones who make it.

No, most people do not "make" their language; they just imitate the work that others before them already did. (Some more poorly than others.)

Only a select few of them are influential enough (usually by pure chance) to effect change.

It doesn't matter what you think. Until the majority accepts it, it's not correct. Not because a minority wants it to be.

Sorry, that isn't how correct/incorrect works. Majority of the class getting the wrong answer doesn't suddenly make them right. Nice try though.