Non-binary option for characters, please?

[AmemeAmeklin]

I think it would be easy enough in each language to add this option. Japanese actually very rarely uses he/she/him/her; typically something like 'ano hito' (that person) is used, or a name is used (reason why third person for 'cutesy' talk is so common), or it is otherwise clear in context who is being referred to. As for MSQ dialogue, it is usually clear when the WoL is being discussed while they're right there in the room.

The problem is, I think, that they might have trouble with gender-locked gear, because you have to pick a body type to go with the gender...so unless this is a purely MSQ-cosmetic option, it would take a lot of time to implement.

As for the 'John and Mary are having an argument' example, you also run into this problem with 'John and Tim are having an argument. He wants you to take his side.' It's not just they/them as singular that causes confusion there, and as others have said it has been used as a singular pronoun for some time now.

[BillyKaplan]

As for the 'John and Mary are having an argument' example, you also run into this problem with 'John and Tim are having an argument. He wants you to take his side.' It's not just they/them as singular that causes confusion there

I'm gonna add to that - if you can't rephrase that sentence to work outside of that template, you probably shouldn't be writing for a living.

[AmemeAmeklin]

I'm gonna add to that - if you can't rephrase that sentence to work outside of that template, you probably shouldn't be writing for a living.

Haha I'm pretty sure it's bad English, too. You shouldn't use proforms without their antecedents/postcedents in a sentence like that, technically. So you'd have to do something like 'Bjorn and Saoirse are having an argument. Bjorn wants you to take their side.'

[Shallan]

This has to be a troll. Please tell me you're trolling.

[Daranion]

Snip

Japanese isn't gendered? What are you on about? They have a ton of different ways just to refer to oneself, let alone others. Wait just a second... World:Goblin?

[Gun-Cat]

Japanese isn't gendered? What are you on about? They have a ton of different ways just to refer to oneself, let alone others. Wait just a second... World:Goblin?

Japanese has, and uses very frequently, a lot of gender neutral terms. You are probably thinking of あたし、僕 and 俺 as terms to refere others or the different ways to call your siblings, but in the end Japanese is very gender neutral. You can actually see it in the tales of the storm, in the english version they included a "The WoL is Male/Female" option, something completely missing in the Japanese versions because it isn't needed seeing that the WoL is refered to as 英雄さん, Hero-san. Granted in the MSQ the WoL certainly is refered to as 彼 or 彼女, he or she at times.

All in all I think the whole debate is very unfair. This is a Japanese game and they simply don't have the same sensibilities as westeners in this regard because their language just doesn't work the same way English does. Demanding to be catered to from another culture in that way is perplexing to me.

[Lastelli]

Japanese has, and uses very frequently, a lot of gender neutral terms. You are probably thinking of あたし、僕 and 俺 as terms to refere others or the different ways to call your siblings, but in the end Japanese is very gender neutral.

I disagree. I find japanese to be one of the languages with the lowest degree of gender neutrality, to the point where certain words or expressions are directly associated to a specific gender. A japanese man using かしら or わ at the end of their sentence will be considered rather feminine. A girl using 僕 will be considered masculine, but this doesn't really stop here. The japanese language deeply reflects the japanese culture, and japanese culture is one where social differences and social standing are very important, including the difference in gender as interpreted by the general society.

The problem here is that "gender" has a precise meaning from a biological standpoint, so you can't really treat gender as a state of mind like many self-proclaimed gender neutral induviduals imply it is. You can try to "cheat" and change your gender via surgery and hormonal therapies, this doesn't change the fact that you were either born a she/he. And if you don't feel like you belong to your biological gender I will respect that, but please don't ask the world to change what the word "gender" means just because of your personal ideology or, even worse, to assume that such a biological distinction doesn't exist and is not part of the social relationships of 99,99% of the population.

[Gun-Cat]

I disagree. I find japanese to be one of the languages with the lowest degree of gender neutrality, to the point where certain words or expressions are directly associated to a specific gender. A japanese man using かしら or わ at the end of their sentence will be considered rather feminine. A girl using 僕 will be considered masculine, but this doesn't really stop here. The japanese language deeply reflects the japanese culture, and japanese culture is one where social differences and social standing are very important, including the difference in gender as interpreted by the general society.

I can only talk about my daily office job that is completely gender neutral in comminucation either with each other or with our customers. Granted with friends you have a lot more freedom to express yourself -as you stated correctly using terms and particles- but talking about someone else you will very rarely use a gendered pronoun, and that is what I suppose this whole thread is about and the quote I was answering to said. You are naturally correct on your take regarding politeness.

As opposed to that take a language like German for example that is very particiular about gendering everything to a nonsensical degree. Fish are always masculin Fish (der Fisch), a woman is always female (die Frau) but girls are for some reason gender neutral (das Mädchen). Again this is only my point of view comparing a few languages I know if you have any other experiences I would love to hear them!

[Lastelli]

I can only talk about my daily office job that is completely gender neutral in comminucation either with each other or with our customers. Granted with friends you have a lot more freedom to express yourself -as you stated correctly using terms and particles- but talking about someone else you will very rarely use a gendered pronoun, and that is what I suppose this whole thread is about and the quote I was answering to said. You are naturally correct on your take regarding politeness.

As opposed to that take a language like German for example that is very particiular about gendering everything to a nonsensical degree. Fish are always masculin Fish (der Fisch), a woman is always female (die Frau) but girls are for some reason gender neutral (das Mädchen). Again this is only my point of view comparing a few languages I know if you have any other experiences I would love to hear them!

I understand your point, my native language is the same in that any noun is either M or F and we don't even have a neutral gender like english does. However grammatical gender is yet another thing that may or may not be correlated with biological gender. Actually, I think this is the source of the misunderstanding. Gender neutral people, assuming this actually means anything, mistake pronouns that are used to identify a biological feature for pronouns that should be used to define a social category that is a derivation of the biological feature and other historical reasons.

[Gun-Cat]

Gender neutral people, assuming this actually means anything, mistake pronouns that are used to identify a biological feature for pronouns that should be used to define a social category that is a derivation of the biological feature and other historical reasons.

You might be on point with that. I get that people want to express themself, but demanding language to accomodate to that seems weird.