Non-binary option for characters, please?

[Gemina]

Keep this thread far away from the No Bullshit channel on youtube. It and the OP would be torn to shreds.

Self-expression is not the issue. The reason why left-leaning SJW snowflakes catch flack for their "self-expression" is because it is no longer of the self when you expect society to conform to and share your idealism. I mean, it's crystal clear when you make comments like this:

I spend an ungodly amount of money on Fantasia due to being pretty fed up of being referred to as male or female constantly in basically every cutscene. (I probably shouldn’t have said that, you’re making a killing off me Square, I’ve probably funded all the expantions at this rate)

It isn't SE's fault that you constantly fantasia. However, they do benefit and profit greatly from players such as yourself who just can't seem to be content with any choice they make long term. If it really is about self-expression, then why does SE have to do anything when you can simply start up another character of the desired race/gender/whatever if you don't want to fantasia all the time? You're bothered by the use of pronouns in cutscenes, when you can simply ignore them.

Think about it. Nothing in the game says my version of the WoL is an orphan, or a moon child, or a drinker, or a gambler, or a tree hugger. However, when I come here on the forums and tell people that is what she is, that is self-expression. What you desire is akin to me coming on here and saying SE should make the game so it acknowledges those traits about my character. It isn't realistic, and the abundant idealism of left wingers is a HUGE reason why they get the rug slipped from under them.

[kamenkuro]

I’ll assume you aren’t part of such a group as I am, so it’s predictable that you’d find it “highly unnecessary” if that’s the case. I’m a paying customer, so I have just as much right as you and the next player to voice my wishes and preferences for the game. If more people like me raise their voices to it, they would indeed gain something substantial from it. Our support and loyalty. I’d recommend this game to everyone if they had an option like I and others want for, so while it could take some work, it wouldn’t be fruitless.

Just because you are a customer does not mean that you are entitled to features. I agree you have the right to ask for things but you have to consider the company, the people working on it, and the bottom line. This idea does not affect me. In fact it won't affect most players. That's the thing. The company does not care about such a small group. The people working on the game would have more work on their plate than they need. The cost of having people work on it would not be worth it. What you're proposing isn't as simple as adding RP tags to houses. That's just a UI feature in a small part of the game. What you're proposing is that they go the through the entirety of the game and make sure that every single instance of text referring to gender is in line with a personal belief held by a small negligible amount of people. What you're offering them in exchange for all their hard work isn't money. Which is what you're already giving them. You and yours are already playing and paying for the game without this feature. This feature isn't what you came for. If this was being proposed back when the game was still being worked on this may have worked since there wouldn't be as much work. However since we are currently 3 expansions in that's a tall order with no payoff. The only real feasible compromise is that they release this in a new expansion and only dialogue made afterwards has this option.

[Niceville]

I'd rather they devote the time towards fixing Eureka.

[Iscah]

I agree that having loads of sentient races should surely increase the chances of some among them having a biologically or socially non-binary gender system applied to them.

It’s already happened actually - though not highlighted, it’s explained in the lore book that the sylphs (being plant-based) don’t really have male/female genders, although have their own ‘genders’ of “everblooming” (labeled ‘male’ by other races and referred to with those pronouns, but producing both seed and pollen, equivalent to being female and male together) and “lateblooming” (‘female’ but not really by scientific definition, can’t produce seeds).

And of course it shows up in their genderless-pronoun speaking patterns of “this one” and “that one”.

Additionally the two times we’ve seen sylphs take ‘human form’, they go opposite to their nominal genders - Noraxia briefly appears as a (very gender-neutral) male Hyur if you detour into the main hall of the Waking Sands at one point; and Silbexio from the beast tribe questline who appears as female.

[Awful]

I could care less if they refer to me as a he, a she, or a potato.

[Vidu]

I'm not sure how much work this would require as it's "easy" as a fix in english, but I don't know enough about the other languages. I do know some have male/female connectors that let the listener/reader know which gender they're speaking of and that there are some who have a few unisex terms that are better than just english's crappy they. Just I don't know if in the other languages what they're using when using the gender neutral phrases when speaking about our character. I'm not against this. I just don't know how easy it would be to implement it or how well they would end up doing it.

In regards to that: German has no gender neutral pronounce. It will always be either "er"(he) or "sie" (she), we dont have an equivalent for "they".
Actually, Warrior of Light is "Krieger des Lichts" in german, with "Krieger" being the male version of the word, even though a female one sort of exists - simply by adding "in" to the end (so its "Kriegerin"). Despite being female and playing a female character it never bothered me though.

I'm studying german and I couldnt think of a way to express things (truely) gender-neutral in my native language. At least german has no easy fix for this, because as far as I can tell you, there is no fix at all.

Personally I wouldnt want such an option and I honestly dont see much use for it. I'm obviously not in OPs shoes, but it seems a little strange to me to want such an option... seriously, at least I couldnt care less about being "miss-gendered" and thanks to being a female playing an MMO it happens a lot. Almost everyone in DF/PF refers to me as "he", despite the female character, and I never saw that as a big deal...

[Soupa]

If people don't wanna conform that's fine and all just play as a character that doesn't. I don't really think we need an option for it, if the dialogue bothers you just skip it. Seems like a waste to allocate resources to something like this rather then actual content. I really don't feel like there's enough people to really warrant it either. Sorry fam.

[SenorPatty]

The only way I can see this work is if SE cares enough and finds the spent money to do this minimal enough to go back up to five years of quest, replace every single pronoun with "WoL" as it is the fastest way to get it done and dialogue doesn't need restructuring with "they" and then slap a "WoL" tag option in the language settings that when highlighted says "you will now be referred to as WoL at all times."

For once, this an option I can't get behind, not because it's a lot of work but because I don't see the overwhelming demand for it that would warrant the work for it.

[Deceptus]

I can already anticipate how “controversial” and “SJW” this post will be received by some as (God, when society in about 100 years from now looks back on this and how the word “SJW” is used as a slur for people who ask for more options of self expression, they’ll facepalm so hard.), but as a non-binary tax and sub-paying adult human, would there be any way you could (Square, that is) implement a gender neutral option, maybe if not on the character creation screen, then tucked away in the settings somewhere? (To avoid offending many of those who cry at the sight of *gasp* more than 2 genders!)

I look forward to the original remarks about Attack Helicopters and god knows what else being used as an argument against more options, but to the MANY gender-nonconforming players of this game (I’m sure you’ve all seen how many LGBT* FC’s there are), even just having one catch-all option outside of the gender binary would be so wonderful. I spend an ungodly amount of money on Fantasia due to being pretty fed up of being referred to as male or female constantly in basically every cutscene. (I probably shouldn’t have said that, you’re making a killing off me Square, I’ve probably funded all the expantions at this rate) What do you all think? Dangerous question to ask online, especially here, but I’ll risk it.

Non-binary makes up <1% of the total population. You're asking a team to spend money and time to put content toward that.

[Hestzhyen]

Hard to "just ignore it" when it's in your face all the time... and yes, those who have never questioned and don't care will not notice the pronouns. For people who are in flux or who are non-conforming, it's as noticeable as someone poking you in the eye every time it happens.

My character is male, he is who he is, a separate entity from myself. But if I tried to recreate someone exactly like myself in the game I'd be in OP's position where I didn't really fit since characters would always, always, always use he/she. I'm sympathetic in general to the desire to see more than gendered pronouns for this reason. If there was a neutral option I would definitely use it! However...

Personally I don't think XIV is the place to add this stuff in. It's a game made with clear binary divisions in mind (just look at all the restricted glamours, fashions, and even hairstyles) and it wouldn't be a net benefit to the game to retrofit even something as simple as dialogue options. As many other people have said the systems behind selecting the pronoun to use are more complicated than they might seem at first glance. I'd rather see QoL upgrades to other systems like glamour, Eureka, gearing, and more.

More options are always better. But XIV is what it is at this point in terms of gender representation and I wouldn't want to change it just to make me and OP happy. That's something they can consider for a different game, if they so choose. Honestly though, even Western games haven't really come around to the concept and they're much more "ahead of the curve" so to speak than Eastern devs for this kind of representation. Just make a character you like to look at and don't try to recreate yourself to a T. It's just not possible and asking dev resources to make it work for our tiny minority is unreasonable.