Non-binary option for characters, please?

[Jandor]

I'd really rather not have the option.

[Vaelin]

I'd really rather not have the option.

That’s good for you. If only life was that simple for everyone we’d live in a world where we were all cut out clones of each other and despised anything out of the box.

More options > always good. How does being restrictive help anyone? It doesn’t, it only excludes.

[Iscah]

If they implemented it, it might have to be a local setting that only you see.

Not because of any prejudice but because even if they wanted to do it, it would depend on whether it can be fitted into the existing programming - and the character data which seems to be pretty set in stone as to how many “display instructions” it sends to other players. It’s the same reason why we’re unlikely to get any other changes/improvements to the character creator options, or emotes detached from their strict race/gender variants, unless they do a major overhaul of the system.

At this point the character information would be something like “this is a [male] [Hyur]” and the system is programmed to look at the [male/female] to determine whether to insert “he” or “she” into the dialogue or chatlog messages.

In which case it’s likely that they can’t change that instruction to be “this is a [male] [Hyur] who uses [they] pronouns” (ie. adding an extra piece of information that the system wasn’t designed to handle, and doesn’t know to look at) and it would need to be implemented by changing what gets put in the male/female slot. Which probably means changing that top-level “choose your race and gender” page to have multiple additional options (probably needs six: male model/male pronoun, male/female, male/neutral, female/female, female/male, female/neutral).

And it’s probably not even as simple as just adding those options, because the current male/female instruction would be transmitted as a simple binary 1/0 (no pun intended) and changing that to transmit one of six different options would make it a three-digit binary number instead of one. Which again means changing the amount of character data transmitted, which might not be doable within the current programming.


I’m not saying all this because I don’t think your suggestion is a good one, just that it’s likely to be not as simple as “add an extra option!” when people have been wanting all sorts of extra options for years and none of them have been (can be?) implemented.

[Risvertasashi]

More options > always good. How does being restrictive help anyone? It doesn’t, it only excludes.

While this is a nice ideal, the pragmatic limitations are on the technical side - and are probably the biggest reason your request is unlikely to see fruition. From a technical standpoint, options are anything but free. Particularly when it wasn't in the original design spec. (Perhaps in the next FF MMO?)

[kamenkuro]

This is highly unnecessary. They have enough work as it is. This would not gain them anything substantial. The group this appeals to would not be a large enough group to warrant the work put into something like that.

[Vaelin]

You make very fair points, that’s an argument against any “simple” implementation I understand, it can be far more difficult then it seems. However even for now if all that’s happened from this discussion is the conversation is brought to SE’s attention, that’s a good step in the right direction. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither was my fabulous non-binary Roegadyn!

[Solarra]

I don't see any harm in having more options. If I understand correctly this is only ever going to affect the user, other players won't even see it. If it makes people feel more comfortable and represented in the game, then I think that would be a good thing.

Regarding 'they' being confusing, it really isn't; there are occasions in normal conversation where you will use it, probably without thinking or noticing.
I inherited my FC and the application form at the time didn't ask about gender. I never changed the form, so we have several members who simply never told us. I used to say 'he' or 'she' according to the avatar, but I've stopped doing that. Guys playing female avatars seemed especially likely to find it odd/objectionable. So, rather than risk getting into deep conversations about why I thought someone was female/male, I now keep it neutral and say 'they'. So far, nobody has been confused.

[Vaelin]

This is highly unnecessary. They have enough work as it is. This would not gain them anything substantial. The group this appeals to would not be a large enough group to warrant the work put into something like that.

I’ll assume you aren’t part of such a group as I am, so it’s predictable that you’d find it “highly unnecessary” if that’s the case. I’m a paying customer, so I have just as much right as you and the next player to voice my wishes and preferences for the game. If more people like me raise their voices to it, they would indeed gain something substantial from it. Our support and loyalty. I’d recommend this game to everyone if they had an option like I and others want for, so while it could take some work, it wouldn’t be fruitless.

[Penthea]

I can argue that in a world where we ride and fight alongside dragons, are the champions of the God Mothercrystals, where we summon and fight gods, adhering to the gender binary also does not make a very well told story. You yourself play a catgirl.

I'm not sure how highlighting that I play a catgirl means that having a gender binary is bad for the story. My personal choice in race has literally nothing to do with the game's story. I knew almost nothing about it when I created the character.

I agree that having loads of sentient races should surely increase the chances of some among them having a biologically or socially non-binary gender system applied to them. FF already has a history of doing this with the Qu and black mage races in FFIX. However it was awkward as hell to see Quina constantly referred to as he/she because no one talks like that. But the point is SE have done it before and could do it again. Whether they want to or not is another thing.

I suppose it could be argued that ascians are gender neutral but they are referred to as the gender of the body they inhabit.

But none of this changes the complexity of languages. "He" and "she" are interchangeable because their use is almost identical, but "they" is something different. If SE were to address op's issue I would prefer them to actually do a proper job of making the dialogue work around gender neutral terms instead of replacing one word for another and call it a day. But this might mean voice acted scenes may become muted for players using this feature...and that would suck a bit : /

I just disgree with the use of 'they' being so groundbreaking in storytelling. Did you know 'you' used to be plural-only as well? And look at where we are now.

"John and Mary are having an argument. He wants you to take his side."

"John and Mary are having an argument. They want you to take their side."

Already in this simple phrase we can see that replacing male words with gender neutral words changes the meaning. In the first it says one person wants the reader to take their side, and in the second it says both people want the reader to take their side. The WoL is sometimes referred to in the third person by npcs, so the changes the word "they" can bring to a phrase could certainly change how the story is being told.

[Rhysati]

That's because "he" and "she" are both singular that this works so well. "They" is plural and depending on what is being said that can change the meaning of the phrase. The story refers to both groups of people and individuals together in phrasing very frequently, and replacing a singular word with a plural could very easily convey the story in a misleading manner. Simply replacing "he" and "she" with "they" can be done but it would definitely not result in an equally well told story.

This is incorrect. Singular 'they' has been used since the 16th century. Usually 'they' is used in replace of he or she if you don't know the gender of the person in question. There is a reason why there are a lot of people that wish 'they' to be used as a pronoun for them and it isn't because they wish to break the english language.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...nonbinary-they