Non-binary option for characters, please?

[Areic]

There are only two genders aside from the hermaphrodites who rarely live a long life and make up probably less than 0.1% of the world population.

Thus there are only two gender options.

Bada bing bada boom

[Daibunnie]

Please no, the sjws will demand even more outrageous changes if they do get their way. Don’t ruin an already great game with nonsense that 98% of the community doesn’t even want/need. It's just superfluous and needless changing of the character customization and dialogue. Not to mention the hundreds of equipment and mogstation items that need to get changed for the “nonbinary” gender, which wastes even more dev time.

[Bahati]

There is really no point in arguing gender or lack there of between players. That's none of our business, honestly. What we should be arguing is that a fantasy game has no need for identity politics. Eorzea appears to have two genders. If that is unacceptable, play a different game.

I don't even feel comfortable assuming every player who considers themselves non-binary even cares what gender options are in this game. It's a character not an extension of the psyche.

[Niwashi]

There are extra steps, extra legwork that needs to physically transition. That's a huge disruption. If you don't do these steps, crippling GID / GD. Again, huge disruption.

Can I try to veer this conversation a bit more towards the original topic by pointing out that, in a world like Eorzea, where physical transition is as easy as drinking a potion before you go to bed, it would be far less of a disruption and far less of an issue than it is IRL. In a world where Fantasia exists, and people can be whatever gender they want to be, nobody's going to be stuck in the "wrong" type of body, so it would be safe to assume everyone's body-type gender is their correct one.

Which leaves the only people the request applies to being those who don't (or rather whose characters' don't) have an emotional/mental gender at all, and see themselves as truly genderless. It's a different issue, and I believe a far less common one, than being trans.

[Savagelf]

let talk sale and sell ffxiv since this what is more concern to devs. right we know that Japanese hate SJW-ness we know 80% American hate political correctness. let see head line ffxiv bring non-binary character in to please a minority. oh crap we just lost huge majority of are consumers basic because on this move. if you look game company that made similar mistake in last few months one game that introduce in WW2 game a Britain woman sniper complete flopped after it did that. every time you tried do something like this your sale take huge hit people know what they like. I think better square enix keep away for this ideal, it less profitable and make your fans hate you

first I play ffxiv 1.0 we only had male and female of one character race we move past that now

[Melichoir]

As I did bring up GD, I also have to point out, that it wasnt my intention to lead the conversation away from the OPs initial point about gender non-binary people and the options revolving around them.

In terms of trans inclusionary or exclusionary, there is no argument (at the surface level) that this game is trans exclusionary on the simple basis that you can literally at character creation create any character you so do choose, and of those, you can self identify as a trans character should you choose. Meaning, If I wanted to, I could easily state that my character is FtM Trans. There is nothing in the game which would counter that point, notably because the game does identify people along sex. And the end goal of a trans person, broadly, is to be identified as the sex/gender they feel (male or female). So there is no contention in that regards, which is why discussion about trans issues in game is a bit moot largely (unless the issue then is that the game should outright state a character is trans, which [in my own opinion] is a political move and not in line with the values of many people in the trans community. That being they want to be the gender/sex they identify with, not be a nondescript other and be 'otherized')

The OPs position was on gender identity, particularly non-binary identities, or gender identities that are not the norm (norm in this context referring to averages, and not a reflection of 'right' or 'wrong'). In this regard, there could be an argument the game does not have options for non-binary, however, the push back against the "non-binary options" position is based upon people not agreeing that non binary is a thing and that this is political/sociological.

So yeah, if people want to discuss further, Id probably recommend getting back to topic on hand, which was Gender in regards to binary/non-binary, not necessarily Trans issues.

[kikix12]

Says the person who posted two long paragraphs right above that, pushing their "philosophy" on how they think every trans person must feel, when not every trans experience can be neatly summed up in two paragraphs.

It's not philosophy. Everything I wrote is pure logic. I did show all sides of the coin.

People can only undergo surgeries for fun, to solve a problem or against their will. There is no fourth option much the same way as there is no option for a human to be born from an egg. Humans are born live after undergoing the entire process of evolution inside the womans womb. That's how the world works and there is no philosophy to that either.

If a person willingly underwent a sex-change surgery, there clearly was something they wanted changed. It's not up for debate. It's not guesswork. It's not a secret. If you don't want change then you do not cause change unless forced to do that (through social pressure, bribery, threats or whatever).

That change then could be for fun or to fix an inconsistency. If it was for fun, for example for a guy that wants to go to the womens changing rooms legally to satisfy himself, then the reason would not be to match his sex with his mental gender. It would be fun. That's not a trans person.
If it would be to match the biological and mental gender of a person, then it's a fix done because having them separate doesn't allow a person to live their life how they want. Otherwise they would not need it.


There is nothing up to debate in what I posted. I guess that's why you didn't even TRY to debate it. After all you didn't give a single argument to counter anything that I wrote, instead writing it off as "philosophy" and making excuses that I wrote what people have to feel, when there was nothing as such there.

I'm not really sure what even is the point of you posting here though. You don't want change, you don't want to explain yourself, you don't even try to defend anyone directly. You're just writing pointless stuff that is devoid of any substance. The only thing I can think of?! You're trolling. Seriously, this is probably the first time I ever considered someone "trolling"...but it's really the only possibility I can see. Because there's no way I can make heads or tails of what you wrote in this thread other than that.

[Selova]

You're doing it right now by insisting that it must be a mental disorder, when again, you cannot make that call for everyone else. Nobody can.

The only reason that people would cling to this terminology is to have something to lord over trans people and make them feel like there's something wrong with their heads.

You have a pretty warped way of thinking. Me agreeing with the data that's been confirmed by scientists and doctors that It's a mental disorder does not mean I look down on people suffering from mental disorders, I can't even comprehend how you can even come to that conclusion. Feel free to keep generalizing entire groups of people because apparently you know exactly what everyone thinks that agree's with it being a disorder. I think there is something more telling about you since you completely derailed this topic into accusing people of insulting or looking down on trans people when that's not even what the topic was about. Not one person in this thread was saying negative things about trans people until you came along and made the claim that everyone that agree's with GD being a mental disorder is somehow the same thing as looking down on people that suffer from it. I think you should take a step back and look what why you have this frame of mind in the first place, It's not a healthy way of thinking.

[Iscah]

To go right back to the original post, and what Vaelin actually asked for (with the defensive comments stripped out) is:

...a gender neutral option, maybe if not on the character creation screen, then tucked away in the settings somewhere?

Even just having one catch-all option outside of the gender binary would be so wonderful.

ONE option. Maybe a tickbox hidden in a menu that would make the game insert "they" rather than "he/she" into dialogue referring to their character. That's what I pictured they were asking for when I first read the post.

Not demanding huge changes and alternate character models.

Perhaps the issue lies with them not clarifying exactly what they meant by a "gender-neutral option", leaving people to imagine something else entirely.

[Sigma-Astra]

You're misrepresenting my stance pretty badly.

I said that trans people experience a disorder if they feel like their condition causes disorder in their life, because it is not the kind of thing someone from the outside can judge for them. For some, probably even most of them, it does. Still doesn't necessarily mean all of them.

Not really, I'm merely going by what you're throwing your stance as. Just because you don't see it as a medical disorder, does not mean that it isn't classified as one in the medical science and psychology field. It's an abnormal and unusual stance of the brain thinking in such a way that contrasts towards what has been scientifically and clinically proven as facts through decades of studies and human evolution. We can say that, yes, there are factually two genders and those that don't wish to be a part of either one have a mental abnormality.

However, that doesn't mean that those who don't view themselves as a male or female are abominations in any way, which is what you're painting others in thinking just because they don't agree with you.

I have a mild form of OCD and it is a mental disorder, it's not normal for people to have or experience that sort of line of thinking within their brains. However, that doesn't mean it's a terrible thing and that I'm some kind of victim or abomination for having a disorder.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that you have a problem or abnormal part of thinking within your brain. Nothing wrong at all.