Non-binary option for characters, please?

[SenorPatty]

Hey forum mod. Yeah you, the one scratching your chin as you wonder wether or not you should nuke this thread.

You and I both know you have nuked some for less.

Do it. Do it now and save Gen. Disc from this spiralling insanity.

[ChiefDork]

Because perhaps it is something that will let them get more enjoyment out of the game?

Why does anybody ever ask for any additional features? New glamours or adjustments to the character creator? Because they want to build the character they have in mind and it's not available in the current options.

And they're not dragging you into anything. You wouldn't be forced to play as that gender if they hypothetically added it.

No, it's a power play. I Will make you love me senpai!

Because they might add to the game play in general, not be solely to validate your real life issues?

Posting on a public forum stating it's a lighting rod issue so they can stir the pot? Yeah it's completely altruistic jesture. It's totally not injecting unwanted political and social issues for ego stroking.

[SigmaOZ]

I don't believe in any genders other than male & female!...


There are some weird exceptions in nature yes, but they are not mammals and I doubt they are to be taken into considerations!...


Besides that, I wouldn't feel comfortable seeing genderless or androgynous characters, unless SE made a button to turn such characters into generic NPCs in order to avoid feeling offended!...

[Melichoir]

I can already anticipate how “controversial” and “SJW” this post will be received by some as (God, when society in about 100 years from now looks back on this and how the word “SJW” is used as a slur for people who ask for more options of self expression, they’ll facepalm so hard.), but as a non-binary tax and sub-paying adult human, would there be any way you could (Square, that is) implement a gender neutral option, maybe if not on the character creation screen, then tucked away in the settings somewhere? (To avoid offending many of those who cry at the sight of *gasp* more than 2 genders!)

I look forward to the original remarks about Attack Helicopters and god knows what else being used as an argument against more options, but to the MANY gender-nonconforming players of this game (I’m sure you’ve all seen how many LGBT* FC’s there are), even just having one catch-all option outside of the gender binary would be so wonderful. I spend an ungodly amount of money on Fantasia due to being pretty fed up of being referred to as male or female constantly in basically every cutscene. (I probably shouldn’t have said that, you’re making a killing off me Square, I’ve probably funded all the expantions at this rate) What do you all think? Dangerous question to ask online, especially here, but I’ll risk it.

So Imma try to just look at this from a complete neutral outside observer.

First and foremost, opening up with the controversial and SJW thing immediately hamstrings any position or argument you want to make cause its a pre-emptive attempt to discredit any criticism of your position. Also, remarking about 100 years from now, historically, youre more likely to see people say the opposite: That the Social Justice and gender identity politics of our current era are very barbaric and brutish, most likely due to the over arching narratives both sides provide, rather than talking nuance. And Make no mistake, nuance is not a part of the dialogue at this time in western societies discussion on sex and gender. Particularly since both sides have made erroneous claims about how the 'science is 100% settled' on the matter.

Next, a part of the request is made on the assertion that there is a large part of the base that is gender non-conforming. The question then is to ask how much of hte player population is truly this? On its face, from anecdotal evidence, there are far more Gender Conformist players than non. Of course, that in of itself doesnt say there isnt a sizable number of the non-conformist community, but it does beg the obvious question of how many players make up this section of the player base. I doubt you have any hard numbers, but if you do, you should share them. This also being stated that you are inflating your perception of non-conformist players by using LGBTQ FCs. Of those, most individuals who would fall into LGBTQ would be conformists. That is, they do have a set gender identity, regardless of sexuality.

As for the fantasia, that is a non-sequitur almost in regards to your position. The issue you face is being non conformist, and since the game only registers 2 sexes, no amount of phantasia is going to solve the dilemma you are in. Youre actively wasting your money swapping between the sexes in that fashion. Which btw, you havent actually clarified your position, per say. Are you looking for gender neutral terminology when being referred to (so no him/her, but they/them), or are you looking for options for physical characteristics in the character editor? What is it specifically you are looking for when it comes to being 'non-binary'.

Thats my two cents atleast. Clarity is definitely lacking on your part.

[Iscah]

No, it's a power play. I Will make you love me senpai!

Because they might add to the game play in general, not be solely to validate your real life issues?

Posting on a public forum stating it's a lighting rod issue so they can stir the pot? Yeah it's completely altruistic jesture. It's totally not injecting unwanted political and social issues for ego stroking.

I agree, I doubt they would actually add it rather than a feature that would benefit a larger portion of the playerbase.

But people make all sorts of requests for things that are of pretty narrow use.

And I'm looking at this from an "outside perspective" too. It's not a struggle I've gone through myself - but I don't see it as "attention seeking" from those who do. I've seen and read enough, and known actual people. I believe it's genuine, and not a choice (because again, who would choose to set themself up for the sort of "attention" they get in this thread?). So yes, they have a real-life issue, and one not of their own making.

I can't quite imagine what it would be like, really. Some part of your identity that you didn't choose and is inescapably part of you - and people tell you it doesn't exist and you're just making it up to seem special.

Does the game need to be altered to allow for it? Maybe, not necessarily, unlikely on technical grounds regardless.

But that doesn't mean that posting about something they feel deeply passionate about is nothing but "stirring the pot" for the purpose of making trouble. It's quite clear from their first post that they don't expect any ego stroking out of this - quite the opposite.

It's a big complicated issue but I can absolutely understand why people want to see more representation and recognition of what they are.

This is probably not the right battlefield, but that can be discussed without insulting them.

[Melichoir]

I agree, I doubt they would actually add it rather than a feature that would benefit a larger portion of the playerbase.

But people make all sorts of requests for things that are of pretty narrow use.

And I'm looking at this from an "outside perspective" too. It's not a struggle I've gone through myself - but I don't see it as "attention seeking" from those who do. I've seen and read enough, and known actual people. I believe it's genuine, and not a choice (because again, who would choose to set themself up for the sort of "attention" they get in this thread?). So yes, they have a real-life issue, and one not of their own making.

I can't quite imagine what it would be like, really. Some part of your identity that you didn't choose and is inescapably part of you - and people tell you it doesn't exist and you're just making it up to seem special.

Does the game need to be altered to allow for it? Maybe, not necessarily, unlikely on technical grounds regardless.

But that doesn't mean that posting about something they feel deeply passionate about is nothing but "stirring the pot" for the purpose of making trouble. It's quite clear from their first post that they don't expect any ego stroking out of this - quite the opposite.

It's a big complicated issue but I can absolutely understand why people want to see more representation and recognition of what they are.

This is probably not the right battlefield, but that can be discussed without insulting them.

The issue, as I outlined in my post, is that the commentary set up in the beginning of the OPs post sets the narrative up in such a fashion where it does seem political. They may have their reasoning for starting that way (id Hazard from a lot of narrow conversations on teh subject), but it does not help their position in teh slight bit by starting this way. As I said, it discredits their arguments and positions almost out the gate as people will dismiss anything they say as political propagandizing.

This gets even more complicated because another point I have pointed out is how both sides tend to suggest the science is 100% settled in their favor.

But its not. At a scientific and social level, its not settled, though it DOES appear to lean more in favor of the 2 genders (masculine and feminine constructs) argument over the arguments of infinite genders. Is that mean its settled? No. There is much to still discuss and learn. And that of course will require us to cross certain bridges that are considered taboo.

For EXAMPLE: Is Gender disphoria a mental disorder?

That is a taboo that is not allowed to be fully discussed within proper discourse due to the idea that it would be dehumanizing to trans people. That feeling is often bolstered by the fact that there are, again, erroneous claims citing that the science is settled and its not a mental disorder, often equating it to sexuality, and therefore above reproach and scrutiny. Anyone whos in pursuit of knowledge should know that no subject should ever be above question. However, as more data comes out, there are issues with that position that cannot be easily explained. We could get to the serious heart of something and settle things once and for all IF we have the uncomfortable conversations and research into these things. But again, politics and social issues complicate the issue making that untenable.

Thats why I say that in regards to this conversation, nuance is heavily lacking.

Going back to how this relates to the issue at hand, you essentially have to broad camps: One side claims its an integral part of their existence and that it is offensive to question it, the other side claims that its nonsense and politically/socially motivated. So when one side advocates (usually in a hostile format as of late) for things like "Non Binary options", the other side sees it as a political push. Hence the issues.

Again, I must reiterate, nuance and courtesy for someone elses position, as well as an open mind in both directions, would go a loooong way in this discussion. Problem is, Im not seeing it, and I wont hold my breath expecting it to come.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Why does it being equated with being a disorder have to be viewed negatively?

It doesn't mean it needs to be cured, or that a person is sick. It is definitely caused by either a psychological or chemical imbalance/disorder, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

People are so sensitive about this stuff these days.

[Melichoir]

Why does it being equated with being a disorder have to be viewed negatively?

It doesn't mean it needs to be cured, or that a person is sick. It is definitely caused by either a psychological or chemical imbalance/disorder, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

People are so sensitive about this stuff these days.

Its more the ramifications of being classified as a disorder.

As a point, Sexuality isnt considered a disorder, but just a natural variance in the human condition. Gender Dysphoria is being treated under the same ...umbrella of thought (for a lack of a better description), however there are some issues that make it separate and distinct from sexuality that creates issues placing it under the same mindset as sexuality. These issues raise a lot of questions regarding treatment of it and what the best course of action is.

For an example, if GD was a mental illness, affirming it would actually be detrimental to the health of the individual. If its just a spectrum issue, then affirming it would be helpful. How things are classified can really frame how things are treated. For a more blunt example: If Schizophrenia was classified not as a mental disorder, but a part of a person's identity, that would drastically change how its treated, including the use of medication which counters the effects of it.

I know tis apples and oranges, but on a really big and complex subject about gender, sex, and identity, these should not be brushed over. This also means, unfortunately, that forums like these are ill suited for the conversation.

[redcurrant18]

Oh lord what is this. I do not play Final Fantasy to be confronted with political propaganda that I already deal with on other social media. Hard no. One thing is lgbt or androgynous characters, another thing is weird pronouns like xer or whatever. Over half of players do not want or care about these kinds of issues and Final Fantasy is in no way obligated to cave into such insane demands. It's sad they're going through this problem but that doesn't mean that the game should spend resources catering to something so superficial. If they didn't have the time to make costumes for this year's All Saint's Wake event how on earth does anyone expect them to do something like this?

[Freyt]

Science and truth take conviction, and if it hurts the feelings of some, then so be it. I don't live my life attempting to hurt others, but if by living my life while adhering to the principles of truth and science manages to hurt you, then I'm not sorry in the least about it. I do hope you can learn to cope with it, but I don't at all wish to take responsibility for what you can and can't deal with in your life.

Sex and Gender are the same thing. There are only two genders, and there are only two sexes. Male and female. These statements say nothing as to any sort of mental instability, hormonal balances, or general body structure. It's in reference to specific sexual organs that either do or do not exist on the human body. These statements say nothing about sexual preferences, and they do not change just because you are sad.