Non-binary option for characters, please?

[Vonleo]

This thread is stupid /end thread

[Fynlar]

According to the Merriam's dictionary and a thesaurus they basically are.

Then they are wrong. Believe it or not, they are wrong sometimes.

Tl;dr "sex" and "gender" are interchangeable.

Nope.

That's not credible (or proof at all) proof that sex and gender are completely different.

Except it is? That's literally what defines a trans person, unless you're just trying to plug your ears and shut your eyes and pretend they don't exist.


EDIT: Woot, daily limit has been reached. Good night everyone!

If you aren't here to try to persuade people to see things from your perspective why are you posting in this thread?

Simple, because people are being wrong on the internet(!) and I usually feel compelled to speak up when that happens. It's not up to me to get people to listen. I've found that people will usually believe whatever they want.

It's also been quite enlightening to see how progressive (or lack thereof. regressive?) some folks here are.

You don't seem to be enjoying yourself.

Oh, I am, though. I wouldn't still be here if I wasn't.

Except it isn't. That's not what "defines" a trans person and saying sex and gender are interchangeable doesn't deny that they exist nor their struggles.

Sex and gender being interchangeable doesn't mean you have to be mean to a trans person. Every non tumblr trans person I met acknowledges and knows they're the same thing but it doesn't stop how their brain works and that's fine.

Insisting that sex is the same as gender is the equivalent of telling a trans person they cannot exist, because for them it is not the same. You must be operating on some pretty strange logic if you think that isn't a mean judgment to make of another person.


Every trans person I've ever met would not say they are the same, because that is exactly why they identify as trans in the first place.

Yep, it now has two meanings, it happens, words change and evolve. For yet another example see how gender and sex have gone from being interchangeable terms to being distinct terms with separate meanings...

No, it doesn't. People using words wrong does not change their meaning, end of story.


Likewise, sex and gender never were interchangeable. It's only been done (and is still done) because of ignorance as to their meaning.

[OurMom]

Then they are wrong. Believe it or not, they are wrong sometimes.

Where is your credible source/proof that they are wrong? The dictionary does update and change, that is true but they haven't budged on that yet because there's no science that suggests we need to change it because it's....hold on......correct.

Nope.

Double nope, because in the American English language, they are.

Except it is? That's literally what defines a trans person, unless you're just trying to plug your ears and shut your eyes and pretend they don't exist.

Except it isn't. That's not what "defines" a trans person and saying sex and gender are interchangeable doesn't deny that they exist nor their struggles.

Sex and gender being interchangeable doesn't mean you have to be mean to a trans person. Every non tumblr trans person I met acknowledges and knows they're the same thing but it doesn't stop how their brain works and that's fine.

Insisting that sex is the same as gender is the equivalent of telling a trans person they cannot exist

Oh but it's not, because there's plenty of trans people that agree they are the same thing yet don't feel it's threatening their existence. Because their condition still exists and it doesn't change the fact they feel like the other sex.

People using words wrong does not change their meaning, end of story.

...I feel like this should be said to you? You're literally saying the freaking dictionary is wrong, a thesaurus is wrong, and everything we use as a credible source for the US English language is wrong while providing zero proof/sources...

No matter how many times you say something is wrong and use the words wrong it does not change their meaning, end of story.

[YukinoAmidala]

Then they are wrong. Believe it or not, they are wrong sometimes.


Nope.


Except it is? That's literally what defines a trans person, unless you're just trying to plug your ears and shut your eyes and pretend they don't exist.

"This information differs from my opinion so that means it's wrong. I don't have to provide sources or evidence to any of my points though because my opinion is fact."

[Sigma-Astra]

Then they are wrong. Believe it or not, they are wrong sometimes.

Nope.

Except it is? That's literally what defines a trans person, unless you're just trying to plug your ears and shut your eyes and pretend they don't exist.


EDIT: Woot, daily limit has been reached. Good night everyone!


Simple, because people are being wrong on the internet(!) and I usually feel compelled to speak up when that happens. It's not up to me to get people to listen. I've found that people will usually believe whatever they want.

It's also been quite enlightening to see how progressive (or lack thereof. regressive?) some folks here are.


Oh, I am, though. I wouldn't still be here if I wasn't.





Insisting that sex is the same as gender is the equivalent of telling a trans person they cannot exist, because for them it is not the same. You must be operating on some pretty strange logic if you think that isn't a mean judgment to make of another person.


Every trans person I've ever met would not say they are the same, because that is exactly why they identify as trans in the first place.





No, it doesn't. People using words wrong does not change their meaning, end of story.


Likewise, sex and gender never were interchangeable. It's only been done (and is still done) because of ignorance as to their meaning.

This is a lot of inflated ego and words for a simple and classic "No you." response.

[kikix12]

Except it is? That's literally what defines a trans person, unless you're just trying to plug your ears and shut your eyes and pretend they don't exist..

So this is where your ignorance lies. At least it had a reason...surprise surprise.

I'll give you three phrases regarding a trans person.

"Mr. Jack's sex at birth was that of a woman. His gender was always that of a man though."
This phrase is completely clear and correct under current meanings of the words.

"Mr. Jack's sex at birth was that of a woman. His sex was always that of a man though."
This phrase is partially correct. Second instance of "sex" is used incorrectly however. Then there's the fact of it being used twice in a row saying two opposite things. It's not relevant here because the second use was incorrect to begin with.

"Mr. Jack's gender at birth was that of a woman. His gender was always that of a man though."
Here we have an error as well...but not in use of words. The word gender is used correctly both times. The error is more of a matter of style. Repeating the use of the same word in consecutive sentences (or within one sentence) was always a problem that is to be avoided. Here we have also another problem in that the word is used in two related, but separate contexts...which are opposite of each other. That makes this phrase correct on the meaning...but something you'd get an F for at school.

But we can fix that very easily.
"Mr. Jack's gender at birth was that of a woman. His gender mentally was always that of a man though."
And voila. Problem solved, except that it still looks so-so with the word "gender" repeated in consecutive phrases. However since the word "mentally" was added, the issue of misconception is solved because now not only first sentence have context (at birth), but the second one have as well (mentally). Something the phrases above lacked.


Transgender people are proof of there being a possibility of someone having two genders that are different from one another (mental and biological)...or of there being a person whose sex and gender are not the same. Both of these statements are correct. They merely state the same thing in two different ways. You know...the whole purpose of synonyms existing.

Possibly because "gender" is seen as a more 'polite' word than "sex".

I think it's less a matter of it being "polite", more a matter of it having a second meaning that is considered taboo. If public use of the other meaning of that word did not risk fine for obscenity, sharp looks and possibly being raped...it would be used a lot more often even outside scientific and medical circles.

[Iscah]

I think it's less a matter of it being "polite", more a matter of it having a second meaning that is considered taboo.

That's what I meant.

Interestingly it doesn't seem to have that definition in the 1964 dictionary - and not because they didn't want to talk about it, it's just a separate entry.

But we can fix that very easily.
"Mr. Jack's gender at birth was that of a woman. His gender mentally was always that of a man though."
And voila. Problem solved, except that it still looks so-so with the word "gender" repeated in consecutive phrases. However since the word "mentally" was added, the issue of misconception is solved because now not only first sentence have context (at birth), but the second one have as well (mentally). Something the phrases above lacked.

I still don't think that's correct - or ideal at any rate. That's exactly when you use "sex" and "gender" as separate terms with different meanings, even if they can be interchangeable elsewhere.

[kikix12]

I still don't think that's correct - or ideal at any rate. That's exactly when you use "sex" and "gender" as separate terms with different meanings, even if they can be interchangeable elsewhere.

Its meaning is correct. Synonyms have that to them, that they are not selective.

However it is a stylistic error, at the very least. Under normal circumstances, any person with a suitable vocabulary should avoid making such phrases. Completely non-problematic alternatives are, for example:
"Mr. Jack's gender biologically was that of a woman, but mentally he always was a man."
"Mr. Jack's gender is biologically a woman and mentally a man."
"Mr. Jack's biological gender of a woman is different than the mental one."

It's all a matter of context. When using a multi-meaning word in an ambiguous manner, it is a good idea to provide context. There is no such need when using two words that are synonyms in one of the cases, but not the other, like "sex" for biological gender and simply "gender" for mental one. That is part of the reason why we use synonyms.

[Iscah]

My simple understanding of how the terms work is that when you need to differentiate between a person's biological sex and mental gender, you use those terms and they have separate meanings. But in other contexts, where you don't need that distinction, they can mean the same thing. Possibly because "gender" is seen as a more 'polite' word than "sex".

I have a 1964 Oxford dictionary (it's wonderful for looking up the obscure words the game likes to throw at us) and it defines gender as: "grammatical classification (or one of the two, or three, classes) of objects roughly corresponding to the two sexes & sexlessness (masculine, feminine & neuter; see also common(1), epicene), (of nouns and pronouns) property of belonging to such class, (of adj.) appropriate form for accompanying a noun of any such class; (joc.) sex."

Meanwhile, the definition of sex is "being male or female or hermaphrodite" (plus a lot of phrase examples I won't type out, but that's the core of it).

So at that point in time, gender is a grammatical concept, equateable to but not primarily used with the same meaning as sex (except as a 'jocular' term - "mirthful or humorous" by the same dictionary's definition!). Which makes sense for things like gendered nouns, which have a gender but not a sex.

It also makes sense that once you need to be able to define someone's mental perception of their sex as separate to their physical form, that grammatical concept of gender can be repurposed for that meaning. "This person's gender is feminine, she should be referred to with female pronouns." (Don't quote me on that, I'm just guessing. It's too late at night here to keep researching.)

[Altera]

I also wonder if soon people wants SE to remove /cheer and /clap emote like some universitys and football arenas in UK has banned people from cheering on their kids at football or clapping at campus and instead use jazzhands.

Seriously if gender issues is such a huge problem for the young people these days, I would love to trade their cushy life and they could have mine.

This is a video game. When you hit the log in button, you leave your personal issues/preferences/ideology/problems or whatever there. Do not bring them into Eorzea.
Learn to accept things in life doesn't always cater to your needs. I have, otherwise I would go insane.