Non-binary option for characters, please?

[cougarel]

Nobody cares about your gender meat popsicle! Learn how to play your job instead.

Heresy ! The biggest non issue of this game (or real life) has been posted and you dare to come with this insult!
Btw this is not tumblr and people do have different opinions .
Also this has nothing to do that the same merry bunch which keep posting about this kind of stuff, did it again.
Nope, not one bit.
Might as well repeat : this is a fantasy game, stop bringing real life counterparts in it.

[cougarel]

My native language is heavily gendered and the neutral is less evidenced , but that's with most Latin based languages.

Funny how part of this has become rather interesting in the last part, but not because of the "cry wolf", but for the determination on where/how some languages stand.

[kikix12]

God, when society in about 100 years from now looks back on this and how the word “SJW” is used as a slur for people who ask for more options of self expression, they’ll facepalm so hard.

Um...Twenty thousands years ago people that did not identify with either male or female were shunned or killed.
Five thousands years ago people that did not identify with either male or female were shunned or killed.
Two thousands years ago people that did not identify with either male or female were shunned or killed.
Five hundredths years ago people that did not identify with either male or female were shunned or killed.
One hundredth years ago people that did not identify with either male or female were shunned or tolerated.
Now people that do not identify with either male or female are shunned or tolerated.

I think that expecting people in a hundred years to take non-identification with male or female as an "obvious" thing is wishful thinking at best. I do believe that the "shunned" part will be reduced with time and the "tolerated" part will grow ever larger (even transforming to accepted in fair deal)...but "obvious"...it never will be. It threatens the survival of the species, and as such, there will always be significant masses that will not readily embrace it. As such, people that fight for that at the expense of freedoms (creative or legal) will never really be considered any less derogatorily. Even if the word used will change, "SJW" will end up being an "archaic synonym" at best.


As for the whole premise of this thread, the game is designed and established as it is. Redesigning the whole game is simply excessive, especially since that redesign is incompatible with at least some of the languages to which it is translated and therefore some versions cannot include it at all. Take it or leave it, but depending on how important that feature is to you, it may simply mean that you are not the target audience.

[BillyKaplan]

Redesigning the whole game

The game already checks your character's sex when it does basically anything. In cutscenes and even emotes and it changes automatically based on what you decided when you last used a Fantasia. Design wise the game already does it, the options are limited, is all.

that redesign is incompatible with at least some of the languages to which it is translated

That's the better argument and why I agree we're likely not going to see it. If the game was ever translated to my native tongue (won't happen, thank the Twelve) this would not be possible. Although that really depends on how the existing system is implemented more than anything, going with what I proposed earlier in the thread that either gender has a "straight forward" and "ambiguous" option, such languages could just refer both options to the same text option. They will effectively miss out on the function but the system can coexist for all languages regardless.

[Vaelin]

I realise people have strong opinions, but it still boggles me how spiteful some of these posts are.

Even if you disagree with the idea of it yourself, you can still respect that the other person truly thinks of themself as the gender they claim to be, and address them in the way they ask to be addressed.

I also find it very hard to believe that people would "choose" to identify in a way that opens them up to such abuse, if they didn't really believe it to be true.

There's a lot more I could write. Anecdotes. People I know. A history of how I've felt about the issue.

But the core is: I know some of these people, and they're just people. They're not something 'other' that's less deserving of respect.

I don't know what to say, but I don't want to say nothing.

It makes me feel awful to see people talk like they do in this thread.

Thank you for this, it’s honestly helped a lot. I realise I came off as *way* too defensive and pretty haughty, and that’s obviously a poor choice to make when talking about pretty divisive issues like this. But honestly, I’m just a pretty damn insecure and very depressed person and that probably shows. I know there will still be those who doubt me and claim I’m “trolling” or “baiting” but I just made the naive decision to bring up a discussion on this, not in the best way I know, so I take responsability for that at least.

It’s just reassuring to see at least one understanding comment. I’m only human and this thread has really took a toll on my health, so that’s why I’ve gone silent. Thank you for your compassion, it’s really, really helped remind me there’s still good in people, even if it easier to first see me as the aggressor, when really I’m just crying out.

[Bright-Flower]

I certainly wouldn't mind if SE added an option to have characters address you with pronouns independant of your character's sex, but I really don't see SE going through the trouble to do it given all the little limitations in the game as is. Never say never and all that but I'd be surprised, almost shocked if they actually added it. I mean this is a game where you cant' teleport out of your inn room, au ra horns are tied to face options, you have to entirely back out of crafting if a buff falls off between sessions of synthesis to use another item, etc.

[Fynlar]

Lot of people in this thread don't understand the difference between sex and gender. Which is totally understandable

I went for the longest time thinking they were the same thing, and it doesn't help when surveys, registration forms, even the very video games that we're commenting about, will regularly use the two terms interchangeably. For some other countries, particularly a number of European ones from the looks of it, everything is so ridiculously and inappropriately "gendered" in their languages that I'm sure that also has to be an overall impediment to understanding what gender actually is, too.

While errors do still happen, and while it may be that the language behind the two terms was different in the past, the terms aren't wholly interchangeable anymore.

I don't want the dev team to waste time and financial resources on something that is relevant for <1% of the player base.

I'm going to assume by this logic, you're also against them working on the higher tier savage/ultimate fights to the game, too.

[kamenkuro]

I'm going to assume by this logic, you're also against them working on the higher tier savage/ultimate fights to the game, too.

I can assure you. The hardcore crowd actually has a basis. They pay for the game for the fights. This is not in the same vein as the absurdly small amount of people that want the millions of words of text changed so that they feel better and already pay. I promise you. As small as the hardcore group is, this group you're defending is even smaller.

[Lastelli]

I'm going to assume by this logic, you're also against them working on the higher tier savage/ultimate fights to the game, too.

No, as data show that there are enough people interested in savage and ultimate fights. Also, ultimate in particular didn't require many resources since it's all reused assets and mechanics.
Finally, that <1% is more like <0,01%.

[kikix12]

For some other countries, particularly a number of European ones from the looks of it, everything is so ridiculously and inappropriately "gendered" in their languages that I'm sure that also has to be an overall impediment to understanding what gender actually is, too.

There's nothing inappropriate about it. Quite the opposite. Thanks to that the language serves its function a lot better. You're just adding some social politics into language that is absolutely neutral in its function (even if it did form in social politics environment, which the dominance of male words and calling "negative" words largely female, like "death").

In reality, it is EXTREMELY hard to have any difficulty in these "inappropriately gendered" languages to understand who you are talking about because it's hard to MAKE it ambiguous even if you want to...without it being suspicious or awkward-sounding. In comparison you could write an entire book in English without people ever finding out whether characters are female or male if you use unisex names or don't use names at all. That's not really in the European languages and you don't have to do anything special as an author. Sucks for mystery, but is a boon in just about every other kind of communication.

While errors do still happen, and while it may be that the language behind the two terms was different in the past, the terms aren't wholly interchangeable anymore.

You can use "gender" in every case you would use "sex". You cannot use "sex" in some of the cases you would use "gender". This is how it always was and it did not change at all nowadays.

EDIT: On a different note...talking about "gender" and "sex" and whether they are interchangeable or not and blaming other languages traits for the meaning being muddled up is ignorant. Those other languages may not even distinguish between the words. In Polish there is only one word, "płeć". There is no "gender" or "sex". A separate word specifically for describing the biological state of a living being. For grammar gender there is "rodzaj" ("type" in English) and for the modern uses of the word "gender", we just use...gender. As in, the English word, without any change or whatsoever, as a borrowed word. Like Pizza.
So if you want to blame a language for "gender" issues...blame English./EDIT

Doesnt even compare to the massive amount of text and the 4 languages this game supports.

I think it supports more languages, actually. The "global" servers offer four languages, but there are region-locked versions it seems (going by Korean Questions and Answers), which need to be translated into as well.