Please nerf butcher's block potency

[Snarky_Sunseeker]

I won't offer "fixes," as I think that's a question best answered by reasonable people who main as WAR.

I do wish to add to the list of concerns, however.

I've noticed during NM hunts that if an equally geared and/or skilled WAR really wants to rip the Ace from you, they can pretty much do so at will and never give it back. It's not a big deal when the tank in question is actually competent instead of engaging in drunken tanking and other follies, but I find it worrisome that I as a PLD cannot ever dream of standing even the slightest hope of snatching the Ace back from one.

I'm not saying that WAR should be nerfed. I'm saying SE really, really needs to playtest the three tank classes to gain empirical data on how much enmity each job actually generates in practice, and if the results are in accordance with the "real-world" results the devs had intended, and then find fair and equitable ways to rectify that without "robbing Peter to pay Paul," as it were, so that players don't feel like their favorite jobs are being "attacked."

On another note, please, PLEASE do not make us Heavensward Paladins again, SE. I really do not want to relive those days.

[Izsha]

I've noticed during NM hunts that if an equally geared and/or skilled WAR really wants to rip the Ace from you, they can pretty much do so at will and never give it back. It's not a big deal when the tank in question is actually competent instead of engaging in drunken tanking and other follies, but I find it worrisome that I as a PLD cannot ever dream of standing even the slightest hope of snatching the Ace back from one.

I'm not saying that WAR should be nerfed. I'm saying SE really, really needs to playtest the three tank classes to gain empirical data on how much enmity each job actually generates in practice, and if the results are in accordance with the "real-world" results the devs had intended, and then find fair and equitable ways to rectify that without "robbing Peter to pay Paul," as it were, so that players don't feel like their favorite jobs are being "attacked."

On another note, please, PLEASE do not make us Heavensward Paladins again, SE. I really do not want to relive those days.

Few things. Max enmity play is really a wierd thing to care about because the only time that makes any sense is on old hunts. Crapping on damage for overkill enmity in any other scenario makes no sense at all.

2nd, Not really. It entirely depends on the length of the fight. Drk actually has the best enmity in short fights bar none. DAPS is ridonculous and they can spam that until they are out of MP. It also requires no setup/warm up combo like storms eye. Pld actually does the best in long duration fights because FoF lasts forever and there is no need to use any other combo than halone for enmity. Drk eventually runs out of MP for DAPS and either stops doing enmity to regain MP or takes a big hit to enmity generation forever. War needs to refresh eye. War also only has unchained for 20/90 for a 25% damage boost while Pld FoF has the same 25% damage boost but up 25/60. The shorter the fight the better drk is. Longer the fight, more Pld pulls ahead. Neither need to waste 3 gcds and maintain a buff. War fits smack in between requiring a longer warm up, but a larger burst once it gets going with unchained, but then falls right back off.

War's big enmity awesomeness really isnt about creating the MOST enmity possible. It is about making the most enmity while being DPS efficient which is the thing that actually matters for 99.9% of the game. Hunts are a shit show anyway. Any old hunt anyone can cap in a couple actions. New hunts all tanks are more than capable of tanking and it just depends entirely on how long the fight is which no 1 tank has any control over and how much damage you sacrifice for enmity.

As for the OP, players are stupid. Every job has individuals that dont read tool tips and play in horrendously bad ways. That isnt BBs fault by any stretch. Go talk to the darks that dont use darkside or the Plds that dont use either stance. SE cant fix stupid and neither does this suggestion.

[Snarky_Sunseeker]

Few things. Max enmity play is really a wierd thing to care about because the only time that makes any sense is on old hunts. Crapping on damage for overkill enmity in any other scenario makes no sense at all.

Hi, Izasha! Curiously enough, I did actually specifically refer to NM hunts in my previous post, and we do seem to be on the same page in that regard, so that's a good thing.

At this time, I see no reason to address the remainder of your post because it doesn't really address anything I said nor am I disagreeing with it. Perhaps when you witness hunt groups dropping like flies from Angada's cleaves because that "other" tank who needs to prove their e-peen by hogging the Ace refuses to turn him around, you may understand where I'm coming from.

Cheers!

[Izsha]

Hi, Izasha! Curiously enough, I did actually specifically refer to NM hunts in my previous post, and we do seem to be on the same page in that regard, so that's a good thing.

At this time, I see no reason to address the remainder of your post because it doesn't really address anything I said nor am I disagreeing with it. Perhaps when you witness hunt groups dropping like flies from Angada's cleaves because that "other" tank who needs to prove their e-peen by hogging the Ace refuses to turn him around, you may understand where I'm coming from.

Cheers!

This just asks the 'so what?' question. So youre fighting some scrubby hunt with 50 other people. Every tank is spamming enmity for points. One of them manages to grab more enmity than you. 'So what?'. My point is hunts are both an incredibly small part of the game and one of the least important to consider job balance on. Whm also gets mad cray points because of medica 2 and C3 spam on a party. That doesnt mean we need to nerf C3 or buff sch to maintain hunt balance.

Hunts are one of the poorest litmus tests to hinge "saying SE really, really needs to playtest the three tank classes to gain empirical data on how much enmity each job actually generates in practice, and if the results are in accordance with the "real-world" results the devs had intended, and then find fair and equitable ways to rectify that without "robbing Peter to pay Paul," as it were, so that players don't feel like their favorite jobs are being "attacked."

Hunts and enmity shouldnt even be on the to-do list for playtest on tank job enmity any more than whm should be judged based on hunt performance. Hunts are a completely different oddball minigame where the goal has nothing to do with playing intellgently or well. Its an enmity spam fest unattached to anything else in the game.

[Snarky_Sunseeker]

Now Iz, I know it's difficult for you to comprehend that there's a world outside of the subset of a subset that is the Savage tryhard community, but believe it or not, those other 95% of players are the reason why SE even bothers to create the only content that's "relevant" to them. So, much to your chagrin, my points hold as much weight at yours if not more so, because I represent a part of the community that doesn't see everything outside of Savage as nothing more than filler or a stepping stone.

We'll just have to agree to disagree that I fail to see why a tiny minority of the playerbase should pontificate what's "best" for the rest of us. I think we're done here.

Also, I'll reiterate my point: SE should check the enmity algorithms for all three tank jobs. They probably won't find anything they take issue with, but hey. Nothing lost by asking.

[Izsha]

Now Iz, I know it's difficult for you to comprehend that there's a world outside of the subset of a subset that is the Savage tryhard community, but believe it or not, those other 95% of players are the reason why SE even bothers to create the only content that's "relevant" to them. So, much to your chagrin, my points hold as much weight at yours if not more so, because I represent a part of the community that doesn't see everything outside of Savage as nothing more than filler or a stepping stone.

We'll just have to agree to disagree that I fail to see why a tiny minority of the playerbase should pontificate what's "best" for the rest of us. I think we're done here.

Also, I'll reiterate my point: SE should check the enmity algorithms for all three tank jobs. They probably won't find anything they take issue with, but hey. Nothing lost by asking.

You fail to realize that loosing threat on a hunt zerg does not actually affect you in any tangible way besides "Darn it! I want to make more enmity!". You dont loose points. You dont loose anything. Heck, we dont even hunt the way they were intended to be hunted. Basing balance around an activity with no winners or loosers at the expense of other content which does is a poor method. No one is 'excluding' Drk from their hunt parties because of the War meta. If a job is notably underpowered in content with strict win conditions, those players are now going to suffer stigmatism from the community.

Hunts dont have any weight in the world. I never said raids are all that matters. There is lots of content that matters when it comes to tank performance. Nearly everything in the game is relevant when it comes to balance. I remember being excluded from dungeons in 2.0 on war in favor of plds as war couldnt mass pull. I remember plds being excluded later because flash did no damage in dungeons. Dungeons matter. Raids matter. 24 mans matter. Extremes matter. PVP (in its own separate world with its own balance and actions) matters. Leveling experience and balance pre 70 matters. Hunts, dont matter (for balance).

Hunts are literally the lowest priority of content to worry about balance on. That is not to say that hunts arent useful/fun/valuable content or that players that hunt dont matter. But job balance in hunts doesnt. There is no notable loss/punishment/exclusion/stigma/negative side effects of job imbalance in hunts. There are consequences to poor balance in virtually any other aspect of the game. All tanks are capable of adequately tanking any hunt defensively and can generate more enmity than any non-tank, and have enough enmity to cap points in large groups exceedingly effectivly. The fact that X tank can do it 1 gcd faster is utterly irrelevant.

[Snarky_Sunseeker]

And, as expected, you totally miss the point. I'm not surprised.

Seriously, dude. Let it go. You stopped being on-topic about two posts ago. And I, for one, don't want to see a thread get locked because of it.