Concise Tank Balance Changes

[Chrono_Rising]

That's the point of a discussion. You say a thing, I say a thing. At the end, the end goal of that discussion varies. I like the discussion. It is interesting to see how people view the same aspect of the game. I go in wanting to hear what you have to say and if you do change my mind, victory for you, victory for me. I learnt a thing.

Usually when engaging in discussion the thing I say is related to the thing you say, and the thing you say next is related to that. Sometimes new elements are added in, but typically the discussion evolves from those points. This is not evolving.

You say a thing like "the damage debuff from reprisal is balanced by changing the equation" to which I might respond like "I don't see this justified anywhere" to which I recieved the reply "lethargy is something I miss on blm".

Or you might say "Old Reprisal was a hit when lit skill" to which I might respond "Delaying it strategically was actually a thing for raid buff windows as well as high damage periods" to which I'm only recieving the reply "Hit when lit".

The tragedy isn't that it was Haymaker that got removed.

Reprisal being a "haymaker clone" is literally what started this.

The tragedy is that it was actions -like- Haymaker that got removed. Like Shield Swipe got changed. Beneath all the pomp and performance, FF14's selection of Actions the players use is extremely limited, despite the fact that the engine is capable of much more.

This is a point which has evolved from the post history. I'm going to make a conjecture that what you felt good about with shield swipe and the rare use of haymaker wasn't that it is a skill which you used rarely, I instead have a feeling your pleasure from using these skills actually comes from recognizing niche situations in which using these abilities was actually beneficial. And as I have tried to repeat several times, reprisal had those weird situations as well, but rather than using a rarely used skill a skillful use of reprisal was recognizing when it could be used in more efficient ways than hit it when lit.

I care about actions that give additional options.

See above point.

That change what you can do, that force considerations onto the field, that give you control. Was old shield swipe spammed every time? No. Because you didn't always need it. Using it when it was available was a choice you made, in place of another GCD, that in turn was based on what you needed, and that had a few considerations as well.

Using shield swipe to save on TP or extend goring blade was not all that interesting. The debuff was useless in most cases, the increased enmity was unwelcome since back then part of our dps combo was in an enmity combo, and it was not a potency gain unless extending goring or preventing you from running dry on TP. It is a button which took up room, but was infrequently touched but needed to be kept visible.

What about Shield Swipe now? Could you say it holds that same weight? Is it a better ability, or a more effective one? Because in my opinion, you could fold that potency into Circle of Scorn or Spirits Within and get rid of Shield Swipe, and Paladin wouldn't lose anything worth noting other than a neat animation and a Gladiator capstone quest reward.

Yes, its like old reprisal except less potent, up more frequently, and presents a reward for using sheltron effectively to mitigate damage. However, it presents less decision making than reprisal since it has just 1 function. This argument also folds back into that this also applies to spirits with in which could easily be folded into circle damage as well. Removing more and more oGCDs will make the rotation stale. And on paladin, which is a fairly rigid class, I find random shield swipes to be a nice touch of randomness even if very small.

That is the state of Reactives, what little of them remain. That if they were gone, the Job they were attached to lost nothing. You could have made Haymaker worthwhile again, you could have Shield Swipe really feel like this bracing shunt-and-bash counter attack, but no. One got removed, one got changed to Reprisal, and Reprisal went the way of the dinosaurs, which is basically just paving the way for every other Reactive currently in game.

That's the tragedy.

This feels like a slippery slope argument. I don't see reactives being removed from the game.