Let us Dye Normal Raid gear

[Melichoir]

And yet some have pointed out on this thread, the players that wants dyeable armor and the players that wants to do Savage are very different. If I just started doing Savage because I wanted the dyeable armor, but I don't care doing Savage at all properly, then I'm going to be dragging down a team that actually wants to be there.

I would argue that only a small handful of savage players wouldnt care about dyeable versions being available from normal modes. And even then, it is not mutually exclusive to other motivations. Peoples armor and its ability to be dyed is a perk that a lot of savage raiders like due to its a literal sign saying "Yes, I cleared this content." It is the exact same reason why other glamours, such as those from the Ultimates, are not available for completing the normal modes. They are status symbols, and if you remove that from raiders, I hazard many of them will actually be quite mad about it.

You want that dyeable gear, do the harder content. Work for it. IF its really worth it to you, youll learn the fights, work your butt off, and get it. But as it stands, the idea you should be rewarded with specialty glamour on the virtue of completing average difficulty content, and then telling raiders "Oh, you dont need anything special for your endeavors," is a bit silly and self entitled. Be a better player and get rewarded. Thats how it works.

LOL, you really felt you needed to explain that to me?

/sarcasm I don't do Savage because I don't like Savage...there must be a connection here! Some clue as to why I don't have all the Savage rewards!

Yeah, but what youre suggesting is this: "Im to lazy to learn to do the content, So Im going to petition SE to change the system to suit my tastes and desires at the direct expense of better players." And youre trying to justify it by saying "Well everyone likes dyeable armor, so everyone should have it!"

The catch is that yes, everyone likes it, so people should be motivated to do harder content, and Savage raiders then do it and get the armor. There is no limitation to you getting what you want, except what you deem as being worthwhile. If you wanted it bad enough, youd put in the work. Instead you dont want to work, and are requesting SE give you the 'good stuff' while not putting in effort and expecting the Savage raiders to just be like "Nah, its totally fine that you guys get the same stuff we do for a fraction of the effort.

[Edax]

I would argue that only a small handful of savage players wouldnt care about dyeable versions being available from normal modes. And even then, it is not mutually exclusive to other motivations. Peoples armor and its ability to be dyed is a perk that a lot of savage raiders like due to its a literal sign saying "Yes, I cleared this content." It is the exact same reason why other glamours, such as those from the Ultimates, are not available for completing the normal modes. They are status symbols, and if you remove that from raiders, I hazard many of them will actually be quite mad about it.

You want that dyeable gear, do the harder content. Work for it. IF its really worth it to you, youll learn the fights, work your butt off, and get it. But as it stands, the idea you should be rewarded with specialty glamour on the virtue of completing average difficulty content, and then telling raiders "Oh, you dont need anything special for your endeavors," is a bit silly and self entitled. Be a better player and get rewarded. Thats how it works.

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

[Bright-Flower]

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

So is the idea of having to earn upgraded gear to dye it.

Base af1 gear? Gotta unlock dying.
AF3 gear? Gotta do Eureka.
Tome gear? Gotta wait several months and then do alliance raids for tokens.

The idea of unlocking better, dyable versions of gear is not exclusive to savage either.

If they gave savage their own unique armor then fine, but in the current model, nope.

[Melichoir]

I typically dont like to use the "It's a slippery slope" argument, but it seems apropos here. Lets humor the premise that theyll just create "cooler and better rewards" for savage, and make dyeable armor a baseline feature.

How long till people start saying "It's not fair that Savage content people get this cool specialty armor. Why do our armors suck." Mind you, SE is already meeting the casual player base halfway on the issue. The Omicron Armor is still cool looking armor, even if it is undyed. They are letting players wear the armor to its almost fullest extent by just completing regular mode. If they give better designed armors and gears to the Savage, then the situation will shift away from Dyeable armor to cool vs uncool armors. I mean, the root of your point about dyeable armor is about having more available glamour that you like. So it stands to reason that if you get your wish, SE will hten have to design better/cooler armors and the like for savage, which will shift the glamour question to what I said: "Why do Savage raiders get 'cooler' armor than normal raiders. I want to have it"

[YukinoAmidala]

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

SE did add different things to savage with the second part of final fights each tier in SB and people complained that it wasn't fair that raiders got to partake in exclusive content. People complained when Ultimate was locked behind completing the savage tier raiders got to partake in exclusive content.

It seems that no matter what rewards raiders get there will be someone who states that it isn't right and that they should be able to access it in nm. Lets say you get your dyeable gear in nm, how long until people start complaining that the mounts being exclusive to savage is unfair? I'm sorry but you only think the dyeable sets being exclusive to savage is lazy development because it is an inconvenience to you.

Most of this game is already catered to casuals, let raiders have their rewards.

[Edax]

SE did add different things to savage with the second part of final fights each tier in SB and people complained that it wasn't fair that raiders got to partake in exclusive content. People complained when Ultimate was locked behind completing the savage tier raiders got to partake in exclusive content.

It seems that no matter what rewards raiders get there will be someone who states that it isn't right and that they should be able to access it in nm. Lets say you get your dyeable gear in nm, how long until people start complaining that the mounts being exclusive to savage is unfair? I'm sorry but you only think the dyeable sets being exclusive to savage is lazy development because it is an inconvenience to you.

Most of this game is already catered to casuals, let raiders have their rewards.

Just because somebody always complains doesn't mean every complainer doesn't have a point. If we argue that no changes should ever be made because somebody will always complain, then this game can't be updated with more content ever again.

[YukinoAmidala]

Just because somebody always complains doesn't mean every complainer doesn't have a point. If we argue that no changes should ever be made because somebody will always complain, then this game can't be updated with more content ever again.

Who is arguing that no changes should ever be made again? My only argument is that I believe that the dyeable raid sets dropping only from savage is fair and should remain the way it is.

[Vidu]

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

The story is in NM now.
Minions drop in NM now.
Songs drop in NM.
You can get the general gear (design) from NM.

...there really isnt that much left for Savage - I went over this already, but the rewards are by now limited to:
- getting a higher ilvl a few months ahead, only to have it invalidated with the next patch anyways
- dyeable gear
- a mount (only for clearing the last one though)
- achievments (again: only for the last one; no title or anything given)

Out of all of that, I'd say dyeable gear is probably the best reward - which is most likely why you want it...

Please, tell me, what other possible rewards that are actually worth it - what "better rewards" - could they put in?
Housing items? Sure, I wouldnt mind them - but not everyone has a house and people would be rightfully salty to get something as reward that they cant even use.
How about special glamour-sets locked behind Savage-books? Completly alternative sets (dyeable ofc) that you would have no access to at all without doing savage.

What actual, non-game-breaking rewards could be given out in Savage instead of dyeable gear - something thats actually being desired. Yes, even by raiders.

[Edax]

The story is in NM now.
Minions drop in NM now.
Songs drop in NM.
You can get the general gear (design) from NM.

...there really isnt that much left for Savage - I went over this already, but the rewards are by now limited to:
- getting a higher ilvl a few months ahead, only to have it invalidated with the next patch anyways
- dyeable gear
- a mount (only for clearing the last one though)
- achievments (again: only for the last one; no title or anything given)

Out of all of that, I'd say dyeable gear is probably the best reward - which is most likely why you want it...

Please, tell me, what other possible rewards that are actually worth it - what "better rewards" - could they put in?
Housing items? Sure, I wouldnt mind them - but not everyone has a house and people would be rightfully salty to get something as reward that they cant even use.
How about special glamour-sets locked behind Savage-books? Completly alternative sets (dyeable ofc) that you would have no access to at all without doing savage.

What actual, non-game-breaking rewards could be given out in Savage instead of dyeable gear - something thats actually being desired. Yes, even by raiders.

Housing items, unique mounts, raid gear that glows instead of dyes, unique weapons, really the sky's the limit.

[Vaer]

Housing items, unique mounts, raid gear that glows instead of dyes, unique weapons, really the sky's the limit.

Let's be fair here, if they add more stuff like this to only savage and remove the dyeable stuff there will just be a new thread asking for it to drop in normal and we will be back to square one.

You think people won't want glowing armor or some other unique glamour that doesn't have a normal counterpart if they care about dyes in the first place? That's rather optimistic.