State of the Game: The Problem with the Current Progression System

[Delmontyb]

Yeah... Hummm...

Once your new progression system will be cap the "not any progression" will stand... aaaaaaaaaaaand people will cap it first month like every thing else. A infinite progression system will be pointless because of balance and will be at best illusory.

I don't see your point, what I talk about is a system that doesn't impact balance, and does offer value to players who could then be continued to be rewarded for doing XP tasks.

[Darkn155]

Hi! You make some interesting points. However...,

A. Instead of increasing the cap on different currencies, I would like to have increased options for what I can spend the current currency on. This would be great for players leveling multiple jobs. Here's the possible run down for this idea:

1. Genesis = Minor materia and gear stat improvement options for ilvl 380 390. More tomes needed for the higher the grade of materia needed for augmentation.
2. Mendacity = Minor materia and gear stat improvement options for ilvl 360 - 370. More tomes needed for the higher the grade of materia needed for augmentation.
3. Creation = Minor materia gear stat improvement options for ilvl 330 - 350. More tomes needed for the higher the grade of materia needed for augmentation.
... and so on.
The materia stat improvement is for materia already melded in the gear itself in order to do it. Materia is still obtained through the current means. (Drops, Rewards, and purchases)

B. I have not really played Eureka Anemos that much, but felt it was a mindless grind to me. I did not see the rewards worth the trouble since I can get most of it through the normal content at a much faster rate. That said, I would <making air quote hand gestures> do Eureka if it had rewards like gear that I can war into raids. Who says a forbidden land can't have good enough gear for that. This can be applied along with your Wonderous Tales idea to get more people to do it.

[Enkidoh]

The OP is misunderstanding the whole point of materia though, it is less about customizing stats on gear and more just yet another gilsink, in that by destroying gear when it converts to materia, you're taking that item out of the game and thus the economy (this is also why gear with even just a single spiritbond point becomes unsellable on the Market Board or untradable). It's clear SE does not want to change that so that is why there has been no real tweaks to the system since it's introduction.

As for implementing a Merit Point system for those at level cap, the whole reason FFXI had a Merit Point system is exactly because Hiromichi Tanaka stubbornly refused to level FFXI's level cap beyond 75, he was adamant at keeping it frozen at that point for years. Hence Merit Points were to compensate for that. Because FFXIV has a level cap increase by ten levels with every expansion (expect the next FFXIV expansion to raise our level to 80), a Merit Point system at this point would be redundant.

Maybe once we reach level 99 they might look into such a system. But until then, there is no need for it I'm afraid.

[SilverObi]

The problem with any sort of post-cap exp system is the devs themselves are dead set (currently) against the idea due to Balance™. Add in players who cry "illusion of choice" and you end up with a nonstarter. I'd love to see some manner of merit point system that adds in small boosts to classes because growth is fun, and yes a meta will always exist because number crunchers will always exist and say "you do it this way or you're trash", but is The Best of The Best actually required for anything outside of world firsts or speed kills? And why should we let interesting systems wither on the vine because we're afraid that some people will be a bit meaner than usual (gee I feel like I'm back in a parser thread).

[Acidblood]

Going to have to disagree on this one...

Between the ability to level every job on a single character (and more jobs added with each expansion), your personal Chocobo, retainers, squadrons, a few things I’m probably forgetting, and a constantly increasing gear cap, FFXIV already has a wealth of 'progression' systems and things to grind for. Now you could say 'but I've done all of that', and while possibly true, that's also going to be true for any system with a cap; i.e. those who have the time (and motivation) will exhaust it (and want more), while those who don't, or just started late, may never even get close.

So no, I would much rather the devs spent resources on:
1. Accessible* small group mid-core content (e.g. 'extreme' dungeons, more trials like Rathalos)
2. Scalability of existing content (e.g. all dungeons can scale to 'expert' level, treasure maps that scale to party size)
3. Ensuring that all classes are not just 'balanced', but fun to play (looking at you DRK and MCH, and to some extent BLM, MNK and post-4.2 WAR)

* PotD / HoH is a poor excuse for this sort of content, as getting to the challenging part requires hours of grinding.

NB. I do like the idea of 'traits' on gear, though I think it would be a much better fit for the Materia system (i.e. so it doesn't require grinding up specific gear pieces)... the Materia would need to be readily accessible though (as Grade VI is currently), because 'upgrading' a piece of gear only to lose a 'rare' trait would absolutely suck.

[van_arn]

I'd really rather see a diminishing returns system instead of a hard cap for the top-tier tomestones. As things stand, someone like me who enjoys running my dailies and other content nonstop has little incentive to even log in after I reach cap, since I'm sitting out of Savage this cycle due to out-of-game reasons.

I suppose Eureka was an attempt to provide additional, alternate, progression systems but trying to resuscitate designs WoW single-handedly killed is the wrong way of going about it in a game based on the WoW blueprint.

[Tharnor]

The current system is BORING! Adding alternate leveling systems without meaningful rewards is just more trash to farm. Giving it good rewards gates players behind those that have to much free time to those that do not. It is the primary reason you do not see similar systems in modern mmo's.

The only cure to this problem is a change in the formula. Do something new and actually listen to their play base and not waste a huge chunk of the expansions resources on stupid stuff like diadem/eureka. Both of which had potential but they clearly lake the vision to do anything valuable with it. I have yet to see anyone say they like anemos/pagos. Without the relic they would never have gone.

They could have easily added hunts, beast seal spawned fights like in 11, gear progression via gathering/crafted items, etc. This would have created a whole new economy around the content they are wasting so much resources on. But hey we are getting the logo system for abilities not tied to our class. It is not like a large chunk of us has all the arch types leveled so filling roles is hardly a problem....

It seriously feels like they are happy with adding in new system after system and leave them barren. When they could easily be tied together for alternate progression.

[Gemina]

I don't really see an issue with FFXIV's progression system. I know some players have a problem with it, but that doesn't make it flawed. Why do you feel a capped character has plateaued? And has it truly plateaued? All jobs capped, and maxed out in gear? Got all your EX clears and primal mounts? How about your DoH and DoL? You ever get your blessed tools? How about the one for FSH that VERY few peeps in the game actually have? How's your achievement log? Sightseeing log?

Now, I understand that not all of these activities are for everyone, but if some of these are your thing, can you imagine still trying to get them done while staying caught up while your less interested buddies continue to progress further and further away from you because it's endless? I already feel this now with a level cap because I started late, and my playstyle just won't allow me to catch up to everyone. My activities in the game are far too dispersed.

A merit system could be good or bad I suppose. I see good things because it can keep older content active, but I also see bad as I think it would bring down the desire to level other jobs. I suppose it just depends on how it is set up. It definitely can't impact gameplay, but if a merit system could bring some welcome QoL changes I don't see an issue with it.

While I know you're just brainstorming you have to try to foresee the impact even a small change can have. As an example, merit points that allow increased movement speed outside combat seems benign, but underneath that silky exterior takes away movement speed gimmicks that belong to bard and ninja.

Your posting a lot of content desiring changes to the game, and I have to wonder if you enjoy playing FFXIV anymore dude. Not all change is needed, welcome, or good. While I think the devs should continue to add to the game; this is different than desiring actual changes and the additions you propose will unquestionably change the game.

[OurMom]

No. An MMO is about playing with other people. It's not about endless progression.

MMOs are usually about endless or a "long" progression and varies heavily on the type of mmo.

I get the complaint about wanting to continually progress and mmos used to keep that feeling with slower paced leveling, rng, horizontal progress, and a lot of items and content that actually matter. But once you market mmos towards people that dislike/hate the core functions of mmos you get...this.

There needs to be some form of progression but definitely not the continued leveling, that's getting really boring.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't really see an issue with FFXIV's progression system. I know some players have a problem with it, but that doesn't make it flawed. Why do you feel a capped character has plateaued? And has it truly plateaued? All jobs capped, and maxed out in gear? Got all your EX clears and primal mounts? How about your DoH and DoL? You ever get your blessed tools? How about the one for FSH that VERY few peeps in the game actually have? How's your achievement log? Sightseeing log?

And if people aren't interested in Gathering or Crafting? This game offers a punishingly lack of repeatable content that isn't a pointless grind. Look no further than achievements. They aren't interesting nor do they offer any rewards. It's generic "complete 10,000 FATEs!" One of the reasons Mythic+ excelled in WoW is it gave people a reason to continuously spam dungeons. Now if they actually used the Achievement token system which replaced Veteran Rewards, it could be the start of something decent. Instead, it's been left to rot after adding a single mount in almost a year. There simply isn't much to do in this game unless you like everything. If battle content is your preference, you'll cap in a day or two and be done with it. EX Primals and Savage adds to your weekly activity, however if you lack the time or desire to raid, you have little else to bother with each week.

A prime example came in 4.3. Yoshida outright said they delayed Heaven on High because of how much content was being released. What did we get?

- Handful of MSQ quests
- Swallow's Compass
- Ridorana
- Tsukiyomi
- Namazu
- Kurenai

All of this could be easily completed over a weekend even at a gradual pace. Only Ridorano and Tsukiyomi are something you farm regularly. And unless you were interested in Ultimate, this is all you had to do for six weeks. That just isn't good enough.