Thread: A Suggestion for Dark Knight moving into 5.0/Eventual Rework

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

snip.

Only every 90sec? Sure. I only eliminate a single wall to wall 3+ pack pull once every 90 seconds.

IR gives you 5 back to back direct crit steel cyclones or decimates. Decimate is 280 potency AoE. If you infuriate before hand you will get 7 total decimates a pull and 5 of which will direct crit.

You also have vengeance and upheaval/onslaught.

WAR literally pulls double DRKs AoE if not more. By the time you've got your next triple pack pull together IR is already on cooldown or close to it and boom, another triple pull is done.

It isn't that I underestimate DRK AoE, it's that I think most don't understand that WAR AoE is better than most DPS AoE.

Originally Posted by Speaks

You also have vengeance and upheaval/onslaught.

Vengeance is not an AoE move inherently. If you want to include it, don't forget Eye for an Eye then.
The other two are not AoE moves at all. I listed every skill i could remember that was purely an AoE move. DRK inherently has more than WAR.

This given that criteria is strictly factual.

You're also not discrediting what I just said. As well, you're reinforcing that you don't fully understand how to run with DRK in dungeon content.
Of course it'll be bad if you're playing it bad. That falls onto the player not playing their class well.

No amount of job buffs can improve someone playing poorly.

Originally Posted by Speaks

DRK doesn't have more AoE if you still have to spend a GCD to use it.

Also Vengeance definitely counts since it is part of WARs kit. Onslaught/Upheaval are not AoE, but they are both free and off global. Something that cannot be said for CaS or Dark Passenger.

What is your potency per second in a dungeon? What is WAR's? What is your DPS on a triple pack pull for DRK in the Burn right now? Because WAR can break 6k.

I am unsure why you are so incredibly insistent on being hostile though, you could afford to be more constructive like Kabooa.

Except... you're still wrong. DRK and WAR BOTH have to spend a GCD to do their AoE. Everyone has to spend a GCD to do an action. Just... wow.

Again. I listed everything WAR/DRK has that hits more than a single target. Upheaval and Onslaught aren't being included in this as... they don't hit more than a single target. Again, by that criteria, DRK has more options than WAR.

What is your TP/Beast gauge per second? DRK has means of refilling their MP continually. WAR has Equilibrium to refill TP when in Defiance, HP in Deliverance. Only their combos generate beast gauge, and Infuriate is a one time, +50 to the gauge.
TBN is up way more frequently, when it breaks (which it should in a large pull), you get 50 gauge. enough for a Quietus, which is more MP, which is more AD's, or even if you drop grit and go with BW+Del; point is WAR is good at short-burst AoE damage dealing hindered by gauge and TP. Their means of refueling themselves pale in comparison to DRK's in the same scenario.

If you think I'm being hostile, I'm both sorry for you to think that and less so for me coming off as such. You're just flat out wrong in your assumption on the core gameplay loop of DRK, while simultaneously saying that it's bad because you think it's bad. In AoE situations, DRK wins hands down compared to WAR/PLD in dungeon pulls. This isn't some wild speculative quip, people who are leagues better than myself echo the same sentiment. It's not hard to see that statement made time and time and time again on these forums if you'd but look for it.

Originally Posted by Speaks

Nor does it absolve you of being rude to strangers. Go ahead and go line by line, I would welcome the feedback or even the chance to show you may yourself not be correct.

I am not ignoring feedback, I responded to Kabooa as I will do with others too.

Disclaimer: Sure, I feel like killing a few hours, and I just might. I know my analysis of your breakdown will be lacking, but hey, I'm willing to have people nitpick my critique of your ideas. I won't get defensive about having my analysis being called out for being bad.

But let's get this much outta the air. Having your viewpoint challenged by a person does not make them rude. Having a belief challenged doesn't make the challenger rude. Using tu quoque and false cause arguments whenever people challenge your viewpoints isn't what I'd say counts as "responding to feedback." See your posts, #19, #16, #13, #11, and #5.

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Snip

Both DRK and WAR spend a GCD for their AoE, that is the point. As such let's directly compare and contrast;

Decimate: 280 potency. 5 of 7 will Direct Crit on start of pull.

DADP: 280potency once per 60 seconds, off global.

So WAR gets 5 Direct Crit 280 potency attacks per 90 seconds, DRK gets one oGCD 280 potency attack per 60 seconds.

Abyssal Drain: 120 potency in an AoE.

Overpower: 130 potency in a cone.

Both are GCDs, DRK has slight advantage on GCD speed, but lacks the bonus potency.

Quietus: 210 potency

Steel Cyclone: 200 but restores health akin to Abyssal.


The only way DRK could win out is if the fight went for more than enough time to recast DADP but less time than for another IR. I cannot remember the last time a pull took me more than 40 seconds to burn though.

Originally Posted by Speaks

Both DRK and WAR spend a GCD for their AoE, that is the point. As such let's directly compare and contrast;

Decimate: 280 potency. 5 of 7 will Direct Crit on start of pull.

DADP: 280potency once per 60 seconds, off global.

So WAR gets 5 Direct Crit 280 potency attacks per 90 seconds, DRK gets one oGCD 280 potency attack per 60 seconds.

Abyssal Drain: 120 potency in an AoE.

Overpower: 130 potency in a cone.

Both are GCDs, DRK has slight advantage on GCD speed, but lacks the bonus potency.

Quietus: 210 potency

Steel Cyclone: 200 but restores health akin to Abyssal.


The only way DRK could win out is if the fight went for more than enough time to recast DADP but less time than for another IR. I cannot remember the last time a pull took me more than 40 seconds to burn though.

-sigh-

Okay. Lemme go through this for you.
You're comparing DECIMATE to DADP. inherently a flawed argument as one's a GCD, the other an oGCD with a recast.

Second: You're comparing AD to Overpower. Okay that's a start... but if you want to spam OP on a WAR, I hope you get a goad or a spire, because you're going to chew through your TP otherwise. DRK? DRK regenerates their MP leagues better than WAR does. I mentioned this. Equilibrium has a long recast, so good luck if you run out of TP. DRK? Played well, will not worry about running out of MP.

3rd: Steel Cyclone, without Unchained, will suffer a 20% damage loss because it isn't a thing outside of Defiance. DRK can drop Grit and still do Quietus, thereby suffering no damage loss. And AD's health regen is ONLY a thing when DA'd.

The more you post, I really hope you look back and reflect on the input given, and take it to heart and learn where your own shortcomings with DRK lie, and improve upon them. It'll only serve to make you a better DRK overall. But as it stands now, I still can't but say, again, you don't understand DRK enough.

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

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I was comparing them for the purpose of them both being 280 potency. But you should never be using Overpower aside from the initial trash grab.

Steel Cyclone actually ignores the damage reduction of tank stance, it is mentioned in it's tooltip.