Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Last night I talked to my friend who left the game because of the toxicity in Dungeons and this is pretty much what she had to say.

"I watched all the videos on how to tank, I used all the current rotations, and made sure I watched videos on the fights before hand, then end result was people still telling me to kill myself or threatening to find me and my family and hurt them. I finally deciphered that "Bad" = you don't play the way I want, or I just really want to harass someone.

And honestly if you have to watch movies and learn sql formulas it isn't a game...it's a interactive spreadsheet with three frat bros who want to show their power over you. That's okay I can play FFXV and not have to pay to be threatened and degraded."

And since I have heard something similar to this more times than I can count...I'll just say nice job FFXIV has lost it's awesome community status to become League of Legends, and this is why we can't have nice things.

I know there is going to be several of us who plan to bring it up at Fanfest this year.....but if SE want's to emulate Blizzard to the point it wants it's community nothing will be done.....where is GM Dave when you need him.

Don't worry about bringing your overexagerated claims to the fanfest. You're going to be drowned out by the "We want Viera now" groups.

[Jett-Rinn]

Don't worry about bringing your overexagerated claims to the fanfest. You're going to be drowned out by the "We want Viera now" groups.

It's "Over exaggerated" two words.... and there not, SE has the screens of the chat....but it's typical, the toxics first reaction is to always say it doesn't happen.

[Daibunnie]

It's "Over exaggerated" two words.... and there not, SE has the screens of the chat....but it's typical, the toxics first reaction is to always say it doesn't happen.

>Tries to correct someone else
>Made several grammatical mistakes himself

[Skivvy]

It's "Over exaggerated" two words.... and there not, SE has the screens of the chat....but it's typical, the toxics first reaction is to always say it doesn't happen.

Gotta be extra careful about your own spelling/grammar when you are calling someone else out.

Anyway, regardless of my thoughts on this overall thread, I really hate the term "toxic". It's up there with "white knights" on my hate list. If you don't agree with someone's opinion or stance, that's fine, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're toxic (or a white knight).

[Vidu]

It's "Over exaggerated" two words.... and there not, SE has the screens of the chat....but it's typical, the toxics first reaction is to always say it doesn't happen.

*they're not - if you want to nitpick on someones spelling, make sure you get yours right...

And jerkish behaviour happens, no one is denying that. However, when I hear stories about someone being constantly attacked/kicked etc. I start to wonder if we're hearing the full stories.
I'm not saying your friend is lying and I'm unsure wether she was talking about one or several incidents - if it was only one and she quit the game over it... phew... I'm again not saying that that sort of behaviour is right, but growing a thicker skin can go a long way in life.
If several groups called her "bad", she might have had more trouble putting that video-watching into action than she'd like to admit. Again, that doesnt warrant any kind of insult, but it sounds very unlikely to me that several people would rally up against a tank whos actually playing fine. Just watching a video doesnt cut it, at least not for some people - personally, I need to understand a fight or a job to perform well within it. So I make sure I understand what I'm doing before jumping into content.

I main a tank btw and in my 5 years of playing I had two groups telling me I sucked - one was correct, the other one wasnt. I have to admit I find it strange to hear stories about people constantly being harassed with no reason... I rarely see that happening.
The community is by far not as bad as you're trying to make it look - not defending people insulting your friend, but I stand by my point that if someone calls you (hypothetical you) bad, you should ask yourself whos the problem right now - you or the other guy. And you being the problem should be an answer you should really consider and think about before dismissing this as someone being toxic.

[Vahlnir]

*they're not - if you want to nitpick on someones spelling, make sure you get yours right...

And jerkish behaviour happens, no one is denying that. However, when I hear stories about someone being constantly attacked/kicked etc. I start to wonder if we're hearing the full stories.
I'm not saying your friend is lying and I'm unsure wether she was talking about one or several incidents - if it was only one and she quit the game over it... phew... I'm again not saying that that sort of behaviour is right, but growing a thicker skin can go a long way in life.
If several groups called her "bad", she might have had more trouble putting that video-watching into action than she'd like to admit. Again, that doesnt warrant any kind of insult, but it sounds very unlikely to me that several people would rally up against a tank whos actually playing fine. Just watching a video doesnt cut it, at least not for some people - personally, I need to understand a fight or a job to perform well within it. So I make sure I understand what I'm doing before jumping into content.

I main a tank btw and in my 5 years of playing I had two groups telling me I sucked - one was correct, the other one wasnt. I have to admit I find it strange to hear stories about people constantly being harassed with no reason... I rarely see that happening.
The community is by far not as bad as you're trying to make it look - not defending people insulting your friend, but I stand by my point that if someone calls you (hypothetical you) bad, you should ask yourself whos the problem right now - you or the other guy. And you being the problem should be an answer you should really consider and think about before dismissing this as someone being toxic.

This is pretty much what I tried to say earlier, but somehow it was me saying to "always blame the victim" to this guy when it couldn't be further from the truth. There are coincidences, and then there are patterns. Patterns tend to paint a very different picture.

[Sigma-Astra]

It's "Over exaggerated" two words.... and there not, SE has the screens of the chat....but it's typical, the toxics first reaction is to always say it doesn't happen.

You can't claim that others are being toxic when the entire context of everything you write is rife with vitriol and unnecessary spite towards others just because you think we should hold everyone's hands like we're back in grade school again.

You pay your sub money, you can do poorly on your own time. I pay my sub money, I can expect competency and improvement from the people that group with me. If I want partners that lay dead on the floor every few minutes, I'll play a Tales game or something, thanks.

[Ilan]

It's "Over exaggerated" two words.... and there not, SE has the screens of the chat....but it's typical, the toxics first reaction is to always say it doesn't happen.

Trying to correct people and then call them toxic. Seems somewhat weird.

Its also pretty funny to compare the FF community with the LoL community...if you get flamed in both games in the same way you should think about what you are doing wrong and not complain that others are beeing toxic because there are tons of players who don't have your problems in final fantasy.

[HyoMinPark]

It's "Over exaggerated" two words.... and there not, SE has the screens of the chat....but it's typical, the toxics first reaction is to always say it doesn't happen.

I’ve played this game for almost 3 years now, done all types of content from casual to Ultimate, and I wasn’t always the best player either. But I’ve never seen someone threaten to hurt someone or their family simply for bad play. So either the claim is overexaggerated, or there is far more to the story to prompt someone to actually threaten bodily harm. If there was an actual threat like this, a report to the GMs would get the individual banned, because the GMs do take cases of harassment like this seriously, regardless of what people like to say.

But since we’d rather play the Spelling Police: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...overexaggerate
And it’s “they’re”; not “there”. Before you try to correct someone else on spelling/grammar, may want to check your own first. Just saying.

Anyway, regardless of my thoughts on this overall thread, I really hate the term "toxic". It's up there with "white knights" on my hate list. If you don't agree with someone's opinion or stance, that's fine, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're toxic (or a white knight).

“Toxic” has reached the point where it doesn’t even sound like a word anymore.

I don't run EX or Savage content (or even 8-person Raids), and I wouldn't be surprised if there's more toxicity there, but it very much appears to me that you're being hyperbolic, and likely also leaving out some key parts of the story.

I’ll give some insight on Extremes/Savage content. The “toxicity” that occurs in there usually only occurs because someone is making consistent mistakes that is wiping the group and refuses to stop making them (e.g., learning how to do a mechanic correctly, as opposed to failing it multiple times); is doing significantly low damage (and this is usually not called out because of how taboo parsers are—people are usually either silently removed or the party is disbanded); or someone else starts blaming other players for things they are doing wrong (e.g., tank gets one-shot by the buster and blames the healer for “not healing them”, but didn’t even bother to pop a cooldown for it). And even then, never have I seen someone tell someone else to kill themselves or threaten to hurt them or their family. And I’ve pugged a lot of EX trials and just about every Savage floor this expansion save for Alphascape floors (I haven’t pugged them yet).

So the “toxicity” that occurs in most EX and Savage parties are from players failing to meet the standards the content requires: doing extremely low damage, dying to simple mistakes, not utilizing their entire kit, etc.. And, even then, there are plenty that scrape by with nothing said to them. Because the minute someone tells them that they’re doing something wrong, suddenly the party is full of “t o x i c e l i t i s t s” that have “ruined the game”.