Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Starflake]

If I read the word 'toxic' one more time I feel like I may just throw my computer out. It's such a buzzword these days used for almost every small offence. My God get over yourselves. Stop being a bad player or deal with the consequences of people being pissed off at you for wasting their time. I don't want to spend half an hour in an expert roulette because at 70 my two DPS don't know what it means to aoe. This community sets no high standards on anyone, but most of the time, DF and PF experiences are so bad due to the amount of bad players. It doesn't take much to be a decent player. Read a bit of a guide, practice on a dummy, don't immediately overshoot your ambations. All this talk about toxicity is so ridiculous. I have personally NEVER, after 5 years met someone who is an ass to people for the sake of being an ass. People always had their meltdowns because of just terrible people being terrible players wasting everryone else their time. Stop doing it.

[Lastelli]

I have personally NEVER, after 5 years met someone who is an ass to people for the sake of being an ass. People always had their meltdowns because of just terrible people being terrible players wasting everryone else their time. Stop doing it.

This 100 times. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that things won't get better. The amount of players that have no idea how to play and just want a carry is overwhelming, and the game does absolutely nothing to teach them how to play, nor give any feedback about their performance. In almost any other game you'd hit a wall sooner or later, maybe in the form of a boss, that may indicate that you're doing something wrong and need to re-evaluate your approach, but in this game bad players can easily be carried through any kind of content except for (the last 2 turns of) savage and ultimate. So we end up with 2-3k dd in suzaku ex and alphascape normal. I mean...I witnessed o10n enrage because we couldn't kill the nails/dragon in time...and there were no deaths! I'm not the kind of player that would insult other players for being bad, most of the time I would simply leave after a couple of wipes if the situation is too dramatic, but at this point the average level of the players I find in df and pf duties is really turning me off the game.

[Vahlnir]

This 100 times. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that things won't get better. The amount of players that have no idea how to play and just want a carry is overwhelming, and the game does absolutely nothing to teach them how to play, nor give any feedback about their performance. In almost any other game you'd hit a wall sooner or later, maybe in the form of a boss, that may indicate that you're doing something wrong and need to re-evaluate your approach, but in this game bad players can easily be carried through any kind of content except for (the last 2 turns of) savage and ultimate. So we end up with 2-3k dd in suzaku ex and alphascape normal. I mean...I witnessed o10n enrage because we couldn't kill the nails/dragon in time...and there were no deaths! I'm not the kind of player that would insult other players for being bad, most of the time I would simply leave after a couple of wipes if the situation is too dramatic, but at this point the average level of the players I find in df and pf duties is really turning me off the game.

It takes a lot for me to leave a roulette, unless it's an Ex mode in Mentor roulette...I'm probably a poor mentor for leaving them to their own devices, but some of those fights were rough when they were current or even semi current. With how things tend to be nowadays? No thanks. But anyway, yeah, I've noticed a slight uptick in inexperienced players trying to tackle higher end content. It's quite bad trying to form clear parties that can actually clear. If it were in a roulette or the like I don't mind offering some tips. In fact, I'd love to. But you will get nothing from me in a clear party that's meant for one purpose: clearing the content you signed up for. Learning parties are >>>> that way. And there's never a shortage of those during prime time hours. Random dungeons and raids I try to set my expectations low and will rarely, very rarely say a word if things go south because random people with varying degrees of experience are lumped together. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I will help if I can.

[Brill_]

T The amount of players that have no idea how to play and just want a carry is overwhelming,

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible. I pug a lot of stuff and outside of savage content, 95% of my runs go just fine. I guess it comes down to what is considered "bad". Based on the players in this thread that are perfect, I guess if someone makes a mistake they are looking for a carry. If someone is not topping fflogs, they are looking for a carry. Yes, there are bad players. To say they make up most of the playerbase is just exaggerating. In 5 years, I've never run into the mythical ice mages this forum claims are everywhere.

They should make a server for all these players that never make mistakes. Then they can clear everything in one shot, never die and not have to play with us mere mortals that make mistakes. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

[Lastelli]

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible. I pug a lot of stuff and outside of savage content, 95% of my runs go just fine. I guess it comes down to what is considered "bad".

Indeed. To me, a player that is pulling half the dps his/her job is capable of or lower, given correct execution of mechanics, is a bad player. And believe it or not, in any suzaku farm party I joined in the last 2 days, there were 1-2 players like that. That the rest of the party was good enough to carry them doesn't change the fact that they were unskilled players.
And if you're telling me that you don't find bad players in pug based on the above definition...you either have no idea how to assess a player's skill, or you are one of those bad players. Unless NA players are significantly more competent than EU players.

Though to be fair, the situation is particularly bad right now. Maybe a lot of casual players came back for patch 4.4 and they thought they were good enough for ex trials? Not sure, but anyway the average skill level feels very low right now.

[Daibunnie]

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible. I pug a lot of stuff and outside of savage content, 95% of my runs go just fine. I guess it comes down to what is considered "bad". Based on the players in this thread that are perfect, I guess if someone makes a mistake they are looking for a carry. If someone is not topping fflogs, they are looking for a carry. Yes, there are bad players. To say they make up most of the playerbase is just exaggerating. In 5 years, I've never run into the mythical ice mages this forum claims are everywhere.

I pug all the content I do and I see a bunch of terrible players all the time in both normal and ex/savage. Your argument isn’t new and it just shows that you haven’t actually bothered reading the majority of the posts in this thread. No one here has stated they want perfection from any player, especially not in df roulette. Making a mistake is not the same as having a garbage rotation/playstyle. Forgetting a mechanic is a mistake. Someone using only ice skills as a blm is a bad player. In the short few months I’ve played this game, I’ve seen a countless number of bad players. Just yesterday alone, I saw a pld trying to tank without shield/sword oath while not using flash and continously lost aggro at level 50 content.

They should make a server for all these players that never make mistakes. Then they can clear everything in one shot, never die and not have to play with us mere mortals that make mistakes. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

If they did this, most of the player base would still be stuck on normal shinryu.

[HyoMinPark]

Based on the players in this thread that are perfect

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone in this thread has labeled themselves as perfect or above making mistakes.

I guess if someone makes a mistake they are looking for a carry. If someone is not topping fflogs, they are looking for a carry.

Pretty sure no one said anything like this as well. How many people in here have repeatedly said that they aren’t expecting 95th or 100th percentile play in dungeons, but just basic competency when it comes to one’s job, one’s role, and the fight mechanics? Quite a few. Why is it that everyone seems to ignore the “I’m not expecting perfect play” comments? Is it because it doesn’t fit the rhetoric you choose?

Yes, there are bad players. To say they make up most of the playerbase is just exaggerating. In 5 years, I've never run into the mythical ice mages this forum claims are everywhere.

I met an Ice Mage last week in V12N. Used nothing but Blizzard III and a few Blizzard IVs. Couple Thunders. Never touched a single Fire spell...except I think they used Fire III once. I still have the log for it.

They should make a server for all these players that never make mistakes. Then they can clear everything in one shot, never die and not have to play with us mere mortals that make mistakes. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

Nice strawman.

Again, no one here has said that people in dungeons have to be perfect. No one has said that people have to be perfect, period. They have said that they expect them to know how their job works, how their role works, and how the mechanics work. Basic competency is literally all most people have been asking for in this thread. Especially when you’re in level 70 content.

It’s unacceptable to end up with a DRK in V12N that doens’t use Shadow Wall, TBN, or Dark Mind for a single tankbuster; who doesn’t even seem like they know how to tank in general (this actually happened to me last night—the DPS spent more time tanking Omega-M [or me on AST because healer aggro] because this DRK would not use Provoke to Provoke it off of us). It’s unacceptable to get a WHM that refuses to use so much as a Regen in V11N, and that has to be asked to actually heal (I talked about this a few pages back). Both behaviors are beyond unacceptable when they spill over into EX or Savage. It’s unacceptable to get BRDs that won’t use their songs, or RDMs/SMNs that won’t Mana Shift healers or help Raise dead players if the healers are not in a position to do so, or a melee DPS that insists on just using 1-2-3 and nothing else (e.g., no Heavy Thrust, no oGCDs, no raid buffs like TA, etc.).

[OurMom]

I'm calling bs on this. This thread makes it sound like 99% of the playerbase is terrible.

Not 99%, but there's seriously more than normal here. Anyone that's played any other mmos at an average skill level and come here will tell you this game has the highest number of awful players ever. People have been saying that about this community since 2.0.

People complain about bads in all games but not to this extent because theres just so many.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Not 99%, but there's seriously more than normal here. Anyone that's played any other mmos at an average skill level and come here will tell you this game has the highest number of awful players ever. People have been saying that about this community since 2.0.

People complain about bads in all games but not to this extent because theres just so many.

What I've noticed is FFXIV tends to have the most stalwart defenders for under-performance. You have people who still insist healer DPS isn't a big deal and only shaves "a couple seconds off a dungeon" or whatsoever nonsense. The tank not using CDs? They must be new! There always seems to be an excuse. Of course this isn't unique to FFXIV, but I've never seen people defend it so much.

[Vahlnir]

What I've noticed is FFXIV tends to have the most stalwart defenders for under-performance. You have people who still insist healer DPS isn't a big deal and only shaves "a couple seconds off a dungeon" or whatsoever nonsense. The tank not using CDs? They must be new! There always seems to be an excuse. Of course this isn't unique to FFXIV, but I've never seen people defend it so much.

I mean, as far as healers go...if it's between multitasking and failing to keep people alive and just straight healing I'd have to go with the latter instead of the former. Good healers can juggle, but I do think some people are simply better off healing only. I've seen more than a few healers who have tried to dps and couldn't keep their party members alive. Thankfully not a majority, or at least not in my experience. But still, I agree that healers should be able to do both. Tanks can do the same when it comes to threat generation and dps.