Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Gallus]

No. I believe approaching someone saying "bad" is just being a rude asshole.
I believe making an assessment that somebody is bad and pointing it out to them at the end of an encounter can be a summative assessment.

We play different games then, or at the very least had very different experiences regarding this subject, because I've seen the first situation more times than I can count, while I can count with the fingers of one hand the times I've seen the latter.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It might not qualify as harassment if you take the incident as an isolated case. However, if hostility happens on a regular basis, I believe we could start considering harassment.

Only if it involves the same people in perpetuity. If I type, "Can't I get a damn heal?" Towards two different healers, in two different instances, there is no correlation whatsoever except I died due to lack of healing and expressed my annoyance. This doesn't make it harassment unless we have some invisible "harassment meter" that fills up after every vaguely blunt remark.

You are allowed to do so politely.

Again, I ask, who elected you little miss fun police? If I say the aforementioned, your only recourse outside staying quiet is to offer your opinion for my critical remark. I'm under no obligation to care one way or another. That doesn't make it harassment nor is it against any rules. Is that remark blunt? Yes. But I wouldn't even classify it rude. Just someone annoyed they died due to a lack of healing. I've done that after dying three times to a tank buster I even over-mitigated.

But I suppose I should make absolutely certain I, instead, type "I'm sorry to trouble you, White Mage, but if it isn't too much difficulty, can you please heal me? Oh, oh! I'm sorry. I should just stay in tank stance. After all, I can't risk hurting your feelings otherwise I would be harassing you!"

[Dualgunner]

We play different games then, or at the very least had very different experiences regarding this subject, because I've seen the first situation more times than I can count, while I can count with the fingers of one hand the times I've seen the latter.

Honestly, over five years I've had so many silent dungeon runs where nobody says anything, that the experience of just nobody saying anything drowns out any anecdotes I have one way or the other on how feedback is given. Regardless, you have to admit that, 5+ years of anecdote for either of us is still just anecdote, and nobody has access to any real data regarding player interactions as far as I'm aware.

[gamepob]

This thread is becoming more and more like a dialog in a dungeon where two are arguing about some perceived insult. Wheather it is because someone is insulted as a result of someone else "underperforming" or someone is insulted as a result of someone else giving them "advice". So, is this how giving/receiving an advice is supposed to go?

[Legion88]

Imo people are too quick too judge.

Example: I was C on Suza fight. Especially P1 is autopilot for me, so I rarely pay attention to the marker's letters anymore. However when I positioned myself getting ready for the feathers to spawn, I somehow messed up my camera movement without noticing it. So while everything looked as it always does, I was focussing B instead of C without realizing. We made it through P! with a few deaths bc of that and decided to wipe it. Of coure you immediatelyhave someone going "This group is trolling, this is not a farm party, learn the fight." Because mistakes never happen, right? Once you know a fight there is 0 chance anything will ever go wrong, because brains never derp and people just never make mistakes, ever. Jesus fkn Christ.

I don't think so.
In my experience people start to nagging after some wipes, some, not just one and not after the first pull.
Your example is cute but i could give you multiple example from myself in which i kicked people from my clear and farm PFs according to a 3 Strike rule, 1 strike for every failure i register, not including follwing errors.
And surprisingly there are people who can gather 3 strikes in one pull.

[KaivaC]

But I suppose I should make absolutely certain I, instead, type "I'm sorry to trouble you, White Mage, but if it isn't too much difficulty, can you please heal me? Oh, oh! I'm sorry. I should just stay in tank stance. After all, I can't risk hurting your feelings otherwise I would be harassing you!"

I am jerkish enough that I actually might type something like this in-game tonight. I'll try to remember to post the results if I run into a situation where I might have to say this :P

[Gallus]

Only if it involves the same people in perpetuity. If I type, "Can't I get a damn heal?" Towards two different healers, in two different instances, there is no correlation whatsoever except I died due to lack of healing and expressed my annoyance. This doesn't make it harassment unless we have some invisible "harassment meter" that fills up after every vaguely blunt remark.

This isn't about you or your own harassment meter as an individual player, it's about people generally being called out, harassed or insulted. If a person is called out on a regular basis, whether it's you or somebody else calling them out makes no difference when it comes to qualifying it as harassment, as long as it happens often. You are looking at this too much from your own personal perspective. Start looking at the big picture here.

Again, I ask, who elected you little miss fun police?

Starting to show our true colours? It hasn't taken much from what I can see, all I needed was to express an opinion that didn't match yours. I wonder in what kind of stuff this sort of discrepancy translates to when you are in an ingame context. Friendly advice it was I believe?

But I suppose I should make absolutely certain I, instead, type "I'm sorry to trouble you, White Mage, but if it isn't too much difficulty, can you please heal me? Oh, oh! I'm sorry. I should just stay in tank stance. After all, I can't risk hurting your feelings otherwise I would be harassing you!"

You don't need to write all that, behaving like a civillized human being and not like a child with anger issues is more than enough.

[gamepob]

I am jerkish enough that I actually might type something like this in-game tonight. I'll try to remember to post the results if I run into a situation where I might have to say this :P

I am always for experiments so I would be very interested in the results. But in order to be "objective", you could try 3 different types of wording this. First one is exactly how Bourne said, second is the same without sarcasm, and third is "learn to play White Mage!!!!". Please, let us know how it goes.

[RoyalBeef]

It depends imo. I'm super confident bc I don't mess up colours on Suza Ex in 99.99% of all runs anymore. However IF it happens for whatever reason, it can completely throw me off, leading to follow up fk ups while I try to get my rotation back up asap, or suddenly overthinking when colours come up again and thus fking it up again. I don't know if it's just me or a general thing, but especially in that fight I either have flawless runs or horrible runs, where once something goes wrong everything seems to go wrong bc it got into my head.
Having such a run doesn't make me bad imo, but I usually realize I should probably take a break and recover anyway so I usually apologize and call it quits. You can see the best athletes beak down sometime's because their opponent got into their head with some mind game, and they just fk things up completely. It depends on how much pessure a person can take so it varies, someone else might recover faster. And yes a struggling person is useless in that party, but that doesn't make them a bad player. we all have those days. I think it's common sense to be self aware tho and take a break/do something else when you're on such a streak.

So if the bad run is all a person ever saw of me, they can tell me that run was shit, and I will agree. However if they want to tell me that this one messed up snapshot enables them to call me a bad player in general, I disagree.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This isn't about you or your own harassment meter as an individual player, it's about people generally being called out, harassed or insulted. If a person is called out on a regular basis, whether it's you or somebody else calling them out makes no difference when it comes to qualifying it as harassment, as long as it happens often. You are looking at this too much from your own personal perspective. Start looking at the big picture here.

Of which you provided no examples of; instead attempting to lump all three together. When called out yourself, the goalpost shifts or you backpedal. And like modifiers, you don't seem to understand how harassment works. If someone is being called out by multiple people with no connection to one another, they are all isolated instances. Therefore, it doesn't qualify. Furthermore, this logic, ironically, destroys your prior generalization since that "harassment" can derive from casual players as well as raiders. Yet you placed the blame solely on raiders.

Starting to show our true colours? It hasn't taken much from what I can see, all I needed was to express an opinion that didn't match yours. I wonder in what kind of stuff this sort of discrepancy translates to when you are in an online context. Friendly advice it was I believe?

No, you spoke in absolution and have presented your opinions as fact. My "friendly advice" would be don't make baseless generalizations and engage in arguments where you can't handle your opinions challenged.

You don't need to write all that, behaving like a civillized human being and not like a child with anger issues is more than enough.

Do civilized human beings generalize thousands of individuals based on the actions of a few? Is that polite because it sounds quite childish to me...