Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[SerLuke]

It is obviously a guess based on what myself and others i know experience day by day in dungeons and we can't all just be unlucky all the time.

Hmm I do ususaly go with a friend or two so maybe that’s it

[Vidu]

Hmm I do ususaly go with a friend or two so maybe that’s it

Most likely - I stopped doing my expert roulettes (or any dungeons for that matter) without my boyfriend. Not so much because we're one of those aweful couples that do everything together, but because I ran into way to many bad DPS as paladin and into way to many bad tanks (you know, the kind that needs a minute or two to gather the courage to pull the next mob) when I went as bard to ensure decent DPS... so, now I only do that kind of content with my BLM.
And we still get people that suck. A lot (both the amount of people that suck and how much they do that).
But its less noticeable, because his DPS can easly compensate for someone whos just rolling their head over their keyboard and if I really have to, I can function as my own healer.

...but is that really the way to go? Only queuing for expert roulette with friends to avoid running into people who dont have their most basic job-functions down? At level 70?
I'd like to believe that this cant be the answer and that the actual answer has to be better teaching and gating done by the game itself.
Until then... I'll get through my dungeons with my BLM, request people to play like they're level 70 in level 70 content by asking them to use their basic toolkit and, if that fails, kick them.

[MoroMurasaki]

...but is that really the way to go? Only queuing for expert roulette with friends to avoid running into people who dont have their most basic job-functions down? At level 70?
I'd like to believe that this cant be the answer and that the actual answer has to be better teaching and gating done by the game itself.
Until then... I'll get through my dungeons with my BLM, request people to play like they're level 70 in level 70 content by asking them to use their basic toolkit and, if that fails, kick them.

A good friend of mine (VanilleFang of now permaban-infamy) enjoys poking fun at me in discord every time I complain about getting bads - I'm just told "You know what happens when you do things by yourself! " but like... okay, yeah, fair enough.

It's also the age-old question when queuing for 24mans in particular; do I heal it for safety, dpsing it for speed/confidence in meeting the dps checks or tank it so that doing the former two doesn't earn me a (deadly) tankbuster to the face?

The game definitely needs to teach people a whole lot more. There are currently several threads going on just on the forums about this same topic.

Personally I feel like with the leaps they've made with having your AI companions perform mechanics (or not perform them, LOOKING AT YOU TATARU D: ) they should redo some of the job quest battles to actually teach you things and use them as gates. Healers actually needing to heal a party, tanks needing to maintain threat and dps having to at least oudtdps those AI xD

[Gallus]

ITT: Calling someone bad is completely acceptable.

Push it just a bit more and this community will end up having nothing to envy to communities like CoD, LoL or Overwatch. Keep up the good work, you are almost there.

[Sigma-Astra]

ITT: Calling someone bad is completely acceptable.

Push it just a bit more and this community will end up having nothing to envy to communities like the ones from CoD, LoL or Overwatch. Keep up the good work.

So, you'd rather have us lie to them that they're doing a good job (whether it be a tank that can't hold hate, a healer who spams Cure 1, or a DPS who pulls 2,000 DPS and stays dead on the floor), give them a gold star sticker for effort, and instead, we should burden ourselves by carrying people who literally don't care about anyone elses time so long as they themselves are having a good time?

But, who cares about the people that don't want to take an hour to get through something that should have only taken 30 minutes or less, right? Who cares if they don't have fun either because some people refuse to improve and instead, weigh down the shoulders of the players that do care, and then they themselves decide to leave because they're tired of carrying bad players?

This community won't turn into CoD, LoL, or Overwatch. It'll turn into a dead game where casuals can't get through content anymore because all of the dependable people left for greener pastures and refuse to put up with it any longer.

Either that or they complain to make it easier towards the point that just logging in gives you crap.

[Gallus]

So, you'd rather have us lie to them that they're doing a good job (whether it be a tank that can't hold hate, a healer who spams Cure 1, or a DPS who pulls 2,000 DPS and stays dead on the floor), give them a gold star sticker for effort, and instead, we should burden ourselves by carrying people who literally don't care about anyone elses time so long as they themselves are having a good time?

But, who cares about the people that don't want to take an hour to get through something that should have only taken 30 minutes or less, right? Who cares if they don't have fun either because some people refuse to improve and instead, weigh down the shoulders of the players that do care, and then they themselves decide to leave because they're tired of carrying bad players?

This community won't turn into CoD, LoL, or Overwatch. It'll turn into a dead game where casuals can't get through content anymore because all of the dependable people left for greener pastures and refuse to put up with it any longer.

Either that or they complain to make it easier towards the point that just logging in gives you crap.

You don't lie, you just don't go around calling bad to anyone. If it's a player who is part of your static you talk to them and politely tell them they are not pulling their weight, so you either give them a chance or kick them from your group. If it's a PF party, you might want to kick the person right away. If it's a random player in a dungeon and they are underperforming (a rather ambiguous term because what's underperforming for you might be playing ok for someone else but whatever) you either give them friendly advice or ignore them. Friendly advice isn't telling them they are bad. What are you even trying to accomplish by telling someone they are bad? At best you'll get a deserved spot in their blacklist.

[Sigma-Astra]

You don't lie, you just don't go around calling bad to anyone. If it's a player who is part of your static you talk to them and politely tell them they are not pulling their weight, so you either give them a chance or kick them from your group. If it's a PF party, you might want to kick the person right away. If it's a random player in a dungeon and they are underperforming (a rather ambiguous term because what's underperforming for you might be playing ok for someone else but whatever) you either give them friendly advice or ignore them. Friendly advice isn't telling them they are bad. What are you even trying to accomplish by telling someone they are bad? At best you'll get a deserved spot in their blacklist.

And guess what happens when anyone gives another player constructive criticism about their skill level? We get called toxic, elitist, or worse names sometimes.

You can't have it both ways sometimes and ignoring them serves nothing but allowing the problem to continue for some other poor, unfortunate soul.

If people could learn to actually take constructive and friendly advice, and not immediately whine or cry foul when someone else thinks they're being detrimental towards the party, we wouldn't have this coddling and hand holding problem that we do now.

If I see another person being detrimental and haphazard at playing their main class, I can and will call you out for playing poorly if it's a class that I'm fairly knowledgeable in at the very least, and tell you why and what you need to improve on. However, there is nothing entirely wrong with calling someone outright as a "bad player". It's not a harsh insult and people need to stop treating the word "bad" as a harsh, derogatory insult. I was called a bad BLM a few times when I first started playing that game, I sucked it up, and used that as motivation to get better. It's right that we should always use respectful and polite language, but people also need to stop expecting things to be sugarcoated like a bowl of frosted flakes. There is absolutely nothing disrespectful about the word "bad". I'm bad at cooking, it's not an insult when people say that I'm bad at it. It's the truth. It's more of an insult when they start placing swear words and other flames into the sentence in place of "bad".

People need to learn to deal with the truth.

If they want to blacklist someone for telling the truth, then maybe they should run content with their friends where they can be safe in that little bubble of their's and believe everything is fine and dandy on their own time.

If you don't like constructive criticism, then run with people who don't care how poorly you do.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

On the other end of this, you have the people who call the general community trash because they don't know their toolkit on a Savage level. I actually had someone sit out of a boss fight in Rabanstre because they died. I was healing and having to deal with the usual skullduggery associated with gaming with the general public but I had to ask... WTF? I sort of like the challenge of getting through content with non-ideal factors but if you're one of the l33ts who can't handle that their dps was not top tier because you can't avoid mechs well... You're not only bad, you are also just pathetic. :\

Please don't generalize raiders on the actions of one idiot. Most raiders I know, who range from casual Savage proggers to WF players, would make fun of someone "babyraging" over sitting out a boss because they missed a heal.

You don't lie, you just don't go around calling bad to anyone. If it's a player who is part of your static you talk to them and politely tell them they are not pulling their weight, so you either give them a chance or kick them from your group. If it's a PF party, you might want to kick the person right away. If it's a random player in a dungeon and they are underperforming (a rather ambiguous term because what's underperforming for you might be playing ok for someone else but whatever) you either give them friendly advice or ignore them. Friendly advice isn't telling them they are bad. What are you even trying to accomplish by telling someone they are bad? At best you'll get a deserved spot in their blacklist.

Bad is merely a reference in this thread, not something I suspect many say outright unless it's an accurate description. If I have a healer who simply isn't healing properly, which is causing me to come close to hitting the floor or actually hitting it, I typically say in check, "I need to be healed" or something to that effect. If it's a persistent problem, I simply issue a vote dismal because I have neither the time nor desire to waste arguing with someone who should know the basics of their job in o11n.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

ITT: Calling someone bad is completely acceptable.

Push it just a bit more and this community will end up having nothing to envy to communities like CoD, LoL or Overwatch. Keep up the good work, you are almost there.

Got any proof of that?

[Vidu]

ITT: Calling someone bad is completely acceptable.

Push it just a bit more and this community will end up having nothing to envy to communities like CoD, LoL or Overwatch. Keep up the good work, you are almost there.

Insulting someone and saying "You suck!" is unacceptable.

Giving a person a legit feedback in regards to their skills or requesting them to play at a level they should be playing at by default, aka: level 70, aka: making use of their full skillset at level 70 is only unacceptable in the sense that no one should ever have to do that, since it should be common courtesy to learn your job before you go into group content.
It should be common courtesy to contribute to a group-effort in a meanigful way and if you cant do that, you opend yourself up to be critised.

Now... how you take that polite critisim will determine wether or not you're truely a bad player.
Did you just not know better? Then you should be happy that someone told you about your errors and be glad you can improve now!
Do you just not care because "its just a game lol"? Then you're not only a bad player but also a bad person.

Do you take the advice and improve? Not a bad player.
Do you pull the "you dont pay my sub!!"-card? Pretty bad and toxic player.

Just noticing that someone isnt playing as well as they (reasonably) should at max level isnt the problem - people playing subpar, not knowing, not noticing and not willing to improve are.