Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Rokke]

I one rule should be are they having bad lag day. With all ddos attacks that could be reason ones is playing bad. I see ones always lagging in fights. Like other day lag from ddos attacks was causing my skills to pause for few seconds or caused them to be canceled.

In the case of our recent lagspikes (and bad lag in general), your party and alliance will see the DC above you when you start lagging and/or your dead body go on a parade around the arena so they probably aren’t going to call you a Bad™.

[Gemina]

I can deal with bad players, and do all the time. I much prefer them over toxic players.

As has been pointed out, there are myriad of reasons why a player is playing poorly, but I never take it upon myself to try an improve a player's performance. They did not solicit any advice, and so it will not be received positively in most cases. There is the argument that a player may not know they're bad, but the issue here as I see it is a player who actually cares about their performance will continue to strive to get better regardless of their current skill. On their own, and will likewise seek out advice.

In a case where one player is trying to force feed a rotation to another member, I am actually going to consider the former to be more toxic unless the latter is clearly trolling. This doesn't warrant advice though; it warrants a swift boot from the party. I say that because the player trying to give advice is disrupting the run to do so, and for very little if any benefit at best. Since giving unwanted advice serves more to lengthen the run, and piss off others, it is actually falls more in line with the definition to trolling than the person playing poorly.

[Nestama]

To be completely fair, sometimes when one is sick a distraction is more useful than rest. And if that means underperforming then I personally will stay out of higher end content. Normal raids and various roulettes are typically fine though. I can't speak for everyone though, this is just how I've gone about it before. Again, sometimes a distraction is the best medicine.

I guess the only real 'sicknesses' I get (every so often) are headaches, which playing a game (or staring at a screen at all) doesn't help at all. So lying in bed is the best option here (after taking Panadol or whatever). Might do the same with a cold, since that's annoying and I want it gone ASAP.

Guess it really depends on what kind of "sick" you have. If you're well enough to play games, then whatever illness you have probably won't impede your playstyle too much (unless you have to wipe your nose and refuse to make nose-horns with your tissues). If you're sick to a point where you should be resting, well... stop playing FFXIV and go to bed. You're only making things hard on yourself.

snip

Sometimes you have to inform a player they're doing something wrong, otherwise they'll never know they're doing something wrong. About a week ago, I was in a Suzaku EX party with a SAM who wasn't doing their positionals. Someone advised they should try to do this since they would get more Kenki and the SAM went "oh I didn't know! Thank you!"

Only time giving advice would ever slow a run down is if the bad player doesn't take it, since at that point you've wasted your own time (and others) talking to a brick wall. If a player does take advice, the run can potentially speed up and go smoothly. Toxic players, to me, are those who try to make a player feel like trash (not giving advice, or what they could do differently. Just telling them they're bad).

[Mordoni]

Since everyone else has given their views on what equals New/Bad, I guess I'll have a turn...

If it's my first time in a Dungeon/Raid, if I mess up and die more than once, I'll apologize and admit to being the "Noob," maybe even ask what I did wrong (if mechanics and not AOE).

If I'm on an unfamiliar class or using a different hotbar (PS4 user), I'll practise before doing any group content (besides Fates).

If I'm sick or tired, I'll just stick to Solo/World Content, if I play at all.

It's not hard to take some responsibility for your own actions, is it?

As for being called "Bad," all I'll say is that without clarification, it just means "Not as Good as me," which like "Bad" as a comment, is subjective as hell.

[Awful]

I mean the vote dismiss button exists for a reason idk why people need validation in order to kick someone I kicked two people from World of Darkness because the healer didn't heal and their DPS friend was AFK auto attacking, even in 70 content if someone's not pulling their weight I will initiate a vote dismiss. I don't lose sleep over it I just move on with my life since this is a game and I don't know these people I have my own standards they have their own.

[gamepob]

Having players deliberately or not deliberately underperform is and always will be bad for group content. But I prefer those than toxic trolls. A bad player can learn. A troll can (will) not. I've seen it numerous times in this or any other games, what happens when two (or more) toxic players start with their daily dose of "mommy, my nose is runny again" cry for attention. It can derail whatever the group was doing like not bad player can.

It's very simple, really. One should always ask oneself "Would I have the character, desire or courage to say "you are bad" to this person if we were face to face?" Meaning in real life. If the answer is "no", you should just forget about it and move one. After all, you don't want to be one of internet trolls, do you? Having courage to insult others only when hiding your true identity.
Who needs people like that? They are just BAD.

[Tint]

I have social anxiety, I even retired because of it.

For some reason I don't understand myself, I am playing DRK. I really like the class. But the tankxiety is strong, even after playing it for 3 years now. I know it's considered bad gameplay, but I really need the comfort zone of my tankstance. I drop it occasionally at some dungeon bosses when I know them pretty well, but I usually don't have a good feeling about it.

[Lambdafish]

I have social anxiety, I even retired because of it.

For some reason I don't understand myself, I am playing DRK. I really like the class. But the tankxiety is strong, even after playing it for 3 years now. I know it's considered bad gameplay, but I really need the comfort zone of my tankstance. I drop it occasionally at some dungeon bosses when I know them pretty well, but I usually don't have a good feeling about it.

My best advice would be to play 8 man content with a co-tank that you know. I don't have anxiety playing tank but I'm always a little uneasy in pug groups with a tank I'm unfamiliar with, but communication with your co-tank is always key, especially when you are dropping grit. Have them watch enmity as much you do, and give you a shirk when needed. Also use tools like anticipation now that you have access to them.

Even if not needed, using anticipation when dropping grit may help with the anxiety of dying, and watch your enmity closely and use a power slash when needed

[Yuiipuru]

I can deal with bad players, and do all the time. I much prefer them over toxic players.

^ this
With alphascape nm especially, when runs go bad I try to remember that some people may be new, or are still trying to get used to the fight.
Not everyone gets mechanics down pat after their first clear.

I'll take a couple wipes with someone sincerely doing their best to clear over a player who feels the need to belittles others if they don't play the way they want them to any day.

But like, if you're having any issues, please let your party know. Most people are willing to help if you ask//

[HyoMinPark]

I can deal with bad players, and do all the time. I much prefer them over toxic players.

As has been pointed out, there are myriad of reasons why a player is playing poorly, but I never take it upon myself to try an improve a player's performance. They did not solicit any advice, and so it will not be received positively in most cases. There is the argument that a player may not know they're bad, but the issue here as I see it is a player who actually cares about their performance will continue to strive to get better regardless of their current skill. On their own, and will likewise seek out advice.

In a case where one player is trying to force feed a rotation to another member, I am actually going to consider the former to be more toxic unless the latter is clearly trolling. This doesn't warrant advice though; it warrants a swift boot from the party. I say that because the player trying to give advice is disrupting the run to do so, and for very little if any benefit at best. Since giving unwanted advice serves more to lengthen the run, and piss off others, it is actually falls more in line with the definition to trolling than the person playing poorly.

Again, a lot of people aren’t talking about content like dungeons. We’re talking about high-end content where knowing your rotation is absolutely necessary (and, honestly, people should know their rotations in dungeons as well). It is far more toxic for a SAM to join in on an Extreme farm party and proceed to use their AOE combos or spam Enpi on a boss as opposed to single-target because “lol this is how I want to play these animations look cooler” compared to the person who would say “Hey, please use your single-target rotation on a boss because it’s more effective and deals more damage”.

When you start joining endgame content, you should know how your job functions. No one is expecting perfection, but if you are a MNK not hitting positionals or a BRD not using their songs or a SMN that won’t use a pet, you are clearly not fit to be in level 70 content of any kind. And it’s not “toxic” to have other people point out your shortcomings in content where you should know how your job plays.

^ this
With alphascape nm especially, when runs go bad I try to remember that some people may be new, or are still trying to get used to the fight.
Not everyone gets mechanics down pat after their first clear.

I'll take a couple wipes with someone sincerely doing their best to clear over a player who feels the need to belittles others if they don't play the way they want them to any day.

But like, if you're having any issues, please let your party know. Most people are willing to help if you ask//

No, people don’t get all the mechanics down pat after their first clear. But that’s still not an adequate defense for a BLM doing only 3,000 DPS in the first minute of the fight where the mechanics are quite simple because they want to only use Blizzard III (you probably think I’m joking, but I’m not; I actually got a BLM who only used Bliz III in V12N last week—and judging from other existing logs of theirs, that is legitimately how they play in all content; it wasn’t just them trolling on a random V12N run).