Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Rokke]

I am 100% sure that the kind of behaviours that are witnessed through general incidents are completely unacceptable IRL, so why act so high and mighty on a video game?

If someone plays bad (by your own personal definition), leave them alone. You're unlikely to see them ever again after the 18-23m run of a random duty YOU chose to run without your friends.

There's simply no excuse for bullying someone because they don't meet over inflated standards.

I agree, we should all carry ice mages and mute bards to max ilv! Who cares if everyone else has to work extra hard to drag them across the finish line, don't be a bully ! :^)

[Kaldaka]

I agree, we should all carry ice mages and mute bards to max ilv! Who cares if everyone else has to work extra hard to drag them across the finish line, don't be a bully ! :^)

What's a mute bard?
And why would you be playing with someone that long if you don't like how they play?
(Ice maging is hillarious. Should try it in something like Garuda hm or somewhere Ice 1, Ice 2, Ice 3, FREEEEZE - got half the comms assuming from the people who noticed lol)

If someone was terrible at their job IRL, and holding the rest of the team/company back, they would also probably be reprimanded/fired.

Just because "its a video game" doesn't excuse wasting others time.

It's your choice to be their. YOU choose to stay there wasting your own time.
If you're using a keyboard: Press U > Leave.
Alternatively, go pre-made.

I don't think anyone has said that berating people and acting like a dick is acceptable. That's quite the leap you made there.

If your tanks and healers are bad you're not clearing any of Alphascape. If your tanks and healers are good and all of your dps is bad you're not clearing any of Alphascape.
Who should claim responsibility for these runs if we don't have any personal responsibility to play to a basic functional standard?

Kicking for failure to meet other standards isn't listed under reasons to kick, to my knowledge doing so is reportable (Or at least used to be).
If a whole party is suffering, they can leave as individuals or vote abandon. Further more they could also talk to each other and solve it like adults.

And no, they didn't say that acting like a tool is acceptable on the forum, they simply gave a silent nod to it.
Sadly it doesn't remove the fact that it's those people I'm talking about. They're the ones you run across most frequently in duty finder. They're also the ones most likely to start flaming/harrassing/bullying those they consider to be "lesser" players. /smh

[HyoMinPark]

������ What's a mute bard?

A bard that won’t use their songs.

[Kaldaka]

A bard that won’t use their songs.

Thank you. I was trying to figure out if it was a bard who spammed silence or not...
(Is silence still one of their abilities? - not barded in forever)

[HyoMinPark]

Thank you. I was trying to figure out if it was a bard who spammed silence or not...
(Is silence still one of their abilities? - not barded in forever)

Head Graze is a cross-role for physical ranged that is a 1-second silence; it doesn’t deal any damage though, so its use has mostly been limited to things like HoH, Eureka, occasionally in a dungeon (if possible), and 1 floor in Deltascape and Sigmascape Savage. Blunt Arrow was removed with 4.0 (though it still exists on PvP BRD).

[Ilyrian]

Kicking for failure to meet other standards isn't listed under reasons to kick, to my knowledge doing so is reportable (Or at least used to be).
If a whole party is suffering, they can leave as individuals or vote abandon. Further more they could also talk to each other and solve it like adults.

And no, they didn't say that acting like a tool is acceptable on the forum, they simply gave a silent nod to it.
Sadly it doesn't remove the fact that it's those people I'm talking about. They're the ones you run across most frequently in duty finder. They're also the ones most likely to start flaming/harrassing/bullying those they consider to be "lesser" players. /smh

I agree - I don't think anyone should be kicking anyone in DF - you leave or you stick it out.
But the problem of not holding people to account - or at the very least asking people to have a very basic grasp of how things should work - bleeds into every part of the game.
Personally I've not seen anyone behave horrendously in the DF - anecdotal and of course I know it does happen. But I think it's a huge leap to say questioning a BLM as to why they can't cast their basic rotation is on the same level as threatening to kill them irl or something equally foolish, for example.
I just don't think it's a massive problem, or at least to the extent some people feel it is.
I know it's kind of a wash to say 'Internet get used to it' or similar, but really, bad people exist and good people have a bad day occasionally. But it happens, in all onlne activities.
I think we shouldn't be conflating questioning bad play with internet harassment.

[Vidu]

Kicking for failure to meet other standards isn't listed under reasons to kick, to my knowledge doing so is reportable (Or at least used to be).
If a whole party is suffering, they can leave as individuals or vote abandon. Further more they could also talk to each other and solve it like adults.

Kicking for "difference in playstyle" is a legit reason to kick someone - so as long as you're not insulting the person in question, you can remove them from a party for making mistakes, even in DF (when you set up your own PF you set the rules anyways and if someone doesnt meet your standards, you can always remove them - again: without being a jerk about it, of course).

If the whole party is suffering and its clear as day to everyone whos fault that is, why should the time of 3/7 (and in rare cases: 23) people be wasted or why should someone take the 30 minute penalty, when the whole dungeon could easly be completed with a competent person?
Even more so, when advice was given and the "bad player" still didnt act on it.
I actually had a mute (and undergeared...) bard in The Burn lately. They werent using songs, they weren communicating, they werent reacting to anything that we said in chat. The rest of the group - me (pld), my boyfriend (BLM) and a friend of ours (WHM) - did absolutly fine and we would have probably been able to clear the dungeon despite that bard not having the faintest idea of how to play at level 70 and ignoring polite and friendly advice/requests to make use of his basic abilities.

Why should we tolerate such behaviour? And why should one of us get punished for it by leaving the dungeon?
If the majority decides "I'd rather not play with this person", why should that person remain in the dungeon instead of the majority of players who are perfectly fine with finishing the run together?

[Rokke]

������ What's a mute bard?
And why would you be playing with someone that long if you don't like how they play?

(Ice maging is hillarious. Should try it in something like Garuda hm or somewhere Ice 1, Ice 2, Ice 3, FREEEEZE - got half the comms assuming from the people who noticed lol)

A mute bard is a bard that doesnt sing. One would hope that by the time someone hits 70 they figured out that they should be rotating through them...but they'd be disappointed. I told them to read a guide and we booted them after Rabnasty's 2nd boss. As half the party agreed with a a mute bard being a waste of a slot, the vote went through and we got a replacement that did well enough.

This is ridiculous why don't you just stop playing If new players annoy you. Expectations? The point in doing raids and dungeons are to progress the game maybe instead of expecting someone else to know something maybe you get off your high horse remember when you first played the game. Did you know all the dungeons and cycles NO YOU DIDNT. By all the posts so far I've ready is Damn the New Player because he/she does know anything.
Thank goodness SE does not base sales off of arrogant "know it all" who bash a game that you PAY FOR!!!!!! Good grief have some fun with the game. Lighten the hell up

Eating an unfamiliar mechanic because you are new is understandable, if not expected.
Mistiming your newest skills in a leveling dungeon is is understandable, if not expected.
Not using your core abilities in Alphascape 3 will get you a boot at the 5 min mark and no amount of "ThINK o F THE nEWBIEs!!!1!" should sway that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Kicking for failure to meet other standards isn't listed under reasons to kick, to my knowledge doing so is reportable (Or at least used to be).

You can kick anyone for any reason under the nebulous term "difference of playstyle."

Why should someone be penalized 30 minute because they got paired with a healer who has no idea what they're doing, refuses to listen to any advice and simply doesn't care? Since you like to throwing around "reasonable person." What reasonable person attempts something with no basic understanding of what they're doing, then expect everyone else to cater towards them? How dare we hold people to such inflated standards as "this is a stack marker. You stack on it." Blasphemy!