Eureka is still ruined because of Pagos

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The other content that is notoriously famous for "not being for everyone" is Savage. You never hear this for dungeons, trials, etc...
And the relic is irrelevant. It's not a competitive weapon for progression since Heavensward, so it's nothing but a personal challenge. So, like I always say, if you don't like Eureka, just don't do it. And yeah, some of us

The difference between Savage, Ultimate and Eureka is the former two aren't highlighted as major selling points for the entire expansion whereas Eureka was. Look no further than the Stormblood trailer. What did they show off prominently outside the MSQ? Shirogane and Eureka. Yoshida talked about it incessantly—this newly designed zone that has been in conception for seventeen months. They then took something highly coveted by more casual players and moved it into this new and supposedly exciting content. They wanted Eureka to appeal to the masses. Everything they said and promoted screams this was intended as casual content that would last throughout Stormblood. I sincerely doubt they put this much time and resources into something they only expected 15% of the playerbase to care about. They wouldn't have moved the relic into Eureka if that were the case.

Telling people not to do Eureka is it bores them is perfectly fine. Just don't be surprised when they promptly complain they have nothing to do because a major feature that was intended for everyone appeals to virtually no one.

[Lastelli]

That makes no sense. Take the reward out from EX primals and they would be dead after one week. Take the reward out of raids and they would be dead after one week...

False. Granted it's not thanks to SE that savage is relevant months after its release. We have fflogs to thank for that. For many people fflog is the only thing that keeps the interest in the game alive between even numbered patches. Because, at the very least, trying to keep doing better in challenging content is interesting.

[Alleo]

If SE wouldn't care about their minorities, you wouldn't have Gold Saucer and PvP. I really don't think the game would be better if it was still only the same bland dungeons and bosses in circle room over and over and over. You seem to be under the assumption that if these ressources weren't put in Eureka, the core content would be improved...How do you know that SE's not perfectly fine with how it is right now ?

Because unlike PVP, TT or even Ultimate, Eureka was shown as the main thing for SB. Not a small side activity, but the main attraction and one big selling point of SB. So these cant be compared. Thats like saying that savage would be the main part of the next expansion. Things for a minority should exist but it should be small. Not something that takes over 17 months, at least one dungeon less and more to make.


Also if its only for a small minority, why go out of the way to nerf content? That would not make sense.

[Reynhart]

False. Granted it's not thanks to SE that savage is relevant months after its release.

And you're talking about a population that represents the minority of a minority (Those who actually run Savage), which would probably be low enough to consider the content deader than Diadem or Chocobo Racing right now.
But even if Savage gets a "reward free approach", this would kill everything else in the game, so it's still a void point when trying to discredit Eureka.

but the main attraction and one big selling point of SB.

Sure, it got what...one slide at the SB FanFests ? BIG selling point. Fun fact, the companion app received more focus than Eureka throughout the different Live Letters.

Things for a minority should exist but it should be small. Not something that takes over 17 months

What, you think they were only working on Eureka during 17 months ? Last time I checked 4.2 and 4.4 had the exact same number of dungeons than their 3.x counterpart, even though Eureka wasn't there...And you also have Ultimate to blame for your loss of a straight line with 3 circle rooms that reuses most mechan...hmm, sorry "dungeon".

[Noodle_Trinidad]

And you're talking about a population that represents the minority of a minority (Those who actually run Savage), which would probably be low enough to consider the content deader than Diadem or Chocobo Racing right now.
But even if Savage gets a "reward free approach", this would kill everything else in the game, so it's still a void point when trying to discredit Eureka.

Deader than Diadem? From where do you get this notion when the Pagos population tanked upon the release of Alphascape? As it stands one of the bigger motivators for people now a days is Savage, NM raids and MSQ. Countless times have we heard people just subbing to do the trials, raids and msq and then dropping due to lack of content or rather lack of engaging content. Eureka has less pull than housing at this point, which is literally keeping players subbed just to not lose out on that plot.

Sure, it got what...one slide at the SB FanFests ? BIG selling point. Fun fact, the companion app received more focus than Eureka throughout the different Live Letters.

What, you think they were only working on Eureka during 17 months ? Last time I checked 4.2 and 4.4 had the exact same number of dungeons than their 3.x counterpart, even though Eureka wasn't there...And you also have Ultimate to blame for your loss of a straight line with 3 circle rooms that reuses most mechan...hmm, sorry "dungeon".

It got way more attention than it deserved outside of Fanfest especially when he announced that the Relic this time around was going to be bundled with Relic Gear which to our surpise was “just to give people dyable AF”.

Plus Ultimate did not take away our dungeon because if that was the case we would be getting it back now that 4.0 won’t have anymore Ultimate fights, hell its ludicrous to assume this even took much development when you consider Eureka demanded a useless R/P/S system that was utterly ignored in Pagos, beautiful maps, and “balancing”. Plus don’t forget the delays Anemos had for fine polish only to end up being a shiny turd that the community eventually worked around to make bearable. It’s no secret other than to devout followers of Yoshida that Eureka ate up the resources for the game and will continue to do so since they can’t exactly veer off at this point.

And how nice of you to ignore the fact that 4.1 and 4.3 had less content and has left a new pattern of 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 dungeons for patches.

[Reynhart]

Also if its only for a small minority, why go out of the way to nerf content? That would not make sense.

Because even people in that minority can come out late and they should be able to catch up.

Deader than Diadem? From where do you get this notion when the Pagos population tanked upon the release of Alphascape?

You mean people actually focused on new content ?! What a twist !! And, we're talking about if Alphascape didn't have rewards, meaning that the only incentive would be to compare fflogs.

Eureka has less pull than housing at this point, which is literally keeping players subbed just to not lose out on that plot.

Yes, it's a TRAP !

It got way more attention than it deserved outside of Fanfest especially when he announced that the Relic this time around was going to be bundled with Relic Gear which to our surpise was “just to give people dyable AF”.

So, basically, as soons as Yoshida said that relic armor would be there, people forgot that Eureka would be the "horror house" of XIV.

Plus Ultimate did not take away our dungeon because if that was the case we would be getting it back now that 4.0 won’t have anymore Ultimate fights

Oh, sorry, Noodle_trinidadamus, didn't realize you already know what we'll receive in the next major patch.

And how nice of you to ignore the fact that 4.1 and 4.3 had less content and has left a new pattern of 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 dungeons for patches.

Yeah, the two patches where we got a Ultimate fight...and, for 4.3x, an additionnal EX Trial...

[Alleo]

What, you think they were only working on Eureka during 17 months ? Last time I checked 4.2 and 4.4 had the exact same number of dungeons than their 3.x counterpart, even though Eureka wasn't there...And you also have Ultimate to blame for your loss of a straight line with 3 circle rooms that reuses most mechan...hmm, sorry "dungeon".

No but its still quite some time that was spent on something so it would not make sense that it was only for a small minority. Especially since they have taken the time to put pets, music, mounts, lots of glamour and housing items behind it. Thus lots of items to get people to play it. Why if they knew that it was only for a smaller part? Because ultimate or even savage does not have anything that close to the amount of rewards behind it and that takes at least skill.

Is there a source where they stated that the dungeon was lost because of Ultimate? Maybe I remember it wrong but I thought he said the opposite? That it was for new content but not because of these raids? (Also funny how you describe it because you could use that for Eureka in the exact same way, only that the room is bigger. Otherwise you will have your trash mobs that you need to kill to get to the boss, who may or may not have some mechanics. In the end we lost dungeons for something that is fate farming with grindy conditions)

[Bright-Flower]

I think Eureka takes up too much dev time for just relics. If you could say, use it as an alternate means of gearing out completely, or like HoH uses it to level alt jobs, I'd be more forgiving. For just relics? 3+ zones and all these Eureka specific systems like elemental level and magia board? I think it's a bit much.

Also, while 4.2 and 4.4 have the same amount of dungeons as the 3.X counterparts...4.1, 4.3 and 4.5 are all one dungeon patches. (Unless they surprise us with two in 4.5.)

In 5.0 I hope they take one of two approaches. A. scrap Eureka, give us a HW style relic, and put those dev resources into other areas of the game, or something new entirely. Or B. make a less frustrating version of Eureka that has more useful rewards than just relics.

They said that the time saved by making one dungeon on odd patches would be used to deliver new things. The only new things that seem like they take significant effort are Eureka and Ultimate fights, and Eureka seems to have more put into it.

[Dragoon4life]

This relic step took so long I no longer want any more then the 1 I have. Major nerfs need to happen now not just to Pagos but Anemos too. Honestly I wish they’d just put crystals ( both of them) in the treasure boxes and give us some daily quests. Do something anything please. A tiny nerf isn’t enough to breath life it in.
How bout letting us buy the crystals with tombs or GC credits hell even wolf marks. There needs to be options out side Eureka.

[Reynhart]

Is there a source where they stated that the dungeon was lost because of Ultimate?

That source speaks of "new challenge", "hardcore content that you can challenge with four players"
So basically, nothing precisely like Eureka or Ultimate. You chose to arbitraty put the blame on Eureka and ignore the part that Ultimate could have played in that. For me the "hardcore part" is much closer than Ultimate, but since it's only a hypothesis, I'd say that both are part of it.

Also funny how you describe it because you could use that for Eureka in the exact same way, only that the room is bigger.

The room is bigger, the bosses are not the same during each run since you very rarely do a full clean, you don't navigate through it the same at level 20 than level 35, and you definitely don't go in a straight line with predetemined chain fights, you can enter solo and change party and job multiple times in the instance itself depending of the needs... So, nothing like a dungeon, in fact.

Also, while 4.2 and 4.4 have the same amount of dungeons as the 3.X counterparts...4.1, 4.3 and 4.5 are all one dungeon patches. (Unless they surprise us with two in 4.5.)

Yes, 4.4, a patch with its own version of Eureka. So far, the only trend we have is that "every patch with an Ultimate got one less dungeon". But on the topic of 4.3, we also had Rathalos, the first time since ARR than a major patch (and its derivative) actually gives two Extreme Trials...and Eureka too.

And again, quoting the source above, Yoshida feel that people are not that focused on new dungeons since the only purpose of dungeons is obtaining tomestones, and just about everything in the games gives them, specifically the roulette that send you in whatever dungeon it want without any real impact of what you do.