Eureka is still ruined because of Pagos

[CorbinDallas]

Its same light as was when first came out almost. Was in there 3 hours and got 1.5 crystals from light and only 3 nm's spawned in those 3 hours. So it isn't fine how it is. One in my fc only in those 3 hours gained 1 level. Its not no double or triple drop rate. Good luck in new area when comes after everyone in keeps telling me its going to be 100 times worse than Pagos was when came out.

Relying on the train for light is bad. Go spend an hour at the forge and watch the light come rolling in. It's fine.

[swiss_Momo]

one of the biggest problems with Pagos is the very map itself. Actually fixing that place would require to rework the whole map and get rid of all the bottlenecks, the sleeping dragon roadblocks, the too high level requirements on the 2 top aetherites and the cliffs

[Nalien]

The map isn't what is going to keep people from progressing, the very way Eureka is designed will do that. It's built around an entire instance coming together to spawn NMs, while they might be scaled based on the number of people there, spawning them will become impossible with time, especially with Pagos. Even with some stupid "fix" like letting us take our Squadrons there (I can totally see that being Yoshidas answer) you're just going to be unable to get these weapons in a few months. The map certainly doesn't help new players get to NMs when they do spawn, but in the long run NMs aren't even going to spawn anyway when interest in the instance dies out.

They need to scrap the FATEs and put Levequests in there instead, let us just go in with however many people we see fit, pick up a special NM Levequest (perhaps with some form of requirement attached - ie bring a drop from the crabs at the pond to get the KA Levequest, maybe a tiered system so killing Snow Queen nets you an item to spawn Ash Dragon/etc. for example) and just fight the NM on our own damn terms. The map would be annoying then, but it wouldn't be "Damn I was late to Brothers" annoying, since you'd be spawning your own version of Brothers rather than relying on shitty world spawns. While this would perhaps make the whole thing soloable, there'd still be benefits to grouping up, a full party would do 8 KAs for example, that's more crystals/light/speed belt attempts for each individual in a shorter timeframe than just soloing KA over and over, but it should be possible to solo. In a years time when you're the only person in the instance you wouldn't be hardlocked out of the relics.

The biggest problem with Eureka is really that there is no long term sustainability for the content. Next expansion it'll be as active as Diadem, except this time there are Relics attached that people might still want but wont be able to get. This content was flawed from the very base of its design. It truly is mind blowing to think that the development team is still so out of touch with its playerbase that FATEs are still being pushed out. I don't think I've ever met someone who liked FATEs, yet here we are still having FATEs forced upon us after 2 expansions. How many more failures like Diadem and Eureka do we need before the message gets across? Everyone hated the Atma stage of the ARR Relic. Everyone hated the Crystal stage of the HW Relic. Diadem was a complete failure. Eureka is better but not by much. Heck does anyone even use FATEs as a real means to level? Deep Dungeons seem far better in my experience. I really don't get how the developers can still cling to FATE content like this. I guess it's easy to produce and the playerbase still does it despite all the complaints? Wonder how much longer that kind of design mentality can work.

[Matrinka]

I decided to give Pagos a second chance. Finished my challenge log, got from level 22 to level 26... and now I'm just stuck. No more log exp. I tried to join the train, but I'm too fragile to go to most of the places the train goes because of the level. I can't even unlock the aetherytes up there. Chaining solo doesn't feel viable.

This is beyond frustrating. I can only imagine this place as a ghosttown once all the 35s leave for Pyros. SE is going to have to do something because I think Pagos is going to be a wall that prevents most people from passing.

[Jade3173]

I decided to give Pagos a second chance. Finished my challenge log, got from level 22 to level 26... and now I'm just stuck. No more log exp. I tried to join the train, but I'm too fragile to go to most of the places the train goes because of the level. I can't even unlock the aetherytes up there. Chaining solo doesn't feel viable.

you can do your challenge log in anemos FYI if that hasn't already been said in this thread. Ashkin and spirits still need to be killed at lv20 in there, but the rest of log can be done by killing lv18s in anemos. My friend and I were in there today and got everything but spirits done cause the only lv20 spirits are snow ones that need blizzards to spawn (up by Strider NM)

[Ramesses]

I decided to give Pagos a second chance. Finished my challenge log, got from level 22 to level 26... and now I'm just stuck. No more log exp. I tried to join the train, but I'm too fragile to go to most of the places the train goes because of the level. I can't even unlock the aetherytes up there. Chaining solo doesn't feel viable.

This is beyond frustrating. I can only imagine this place as a ghosttown once all the 35s leave for Pyros. SE is going to have to do something because I think Pagos is going to be a wall that prevents most people from passing.

That is the exact level I got to back in late August/early September and I just got frustrated enough to give up.

[Nalien]

This is beyond frustrating. I can only imagine this place as a ghosttown once all the 35s leave for Pyros. SE is going to have to do something because I think Pagos is going to be a wall that prevents most people from passing.

Leveling up and getting yourself to Pyros should be possible regardless, just might take a few weeks, but progressing the weapon is definitely going to be basically impossible. Even at its peak Pagos FATEs spawned slowly, once the majority move onto Pyros I very much doubt we'll ever see Louhi again, and another lame fix letting us buy the ice for crystals? Not sure that'll float when you also need so many for the upgrade step... And I've not even mentioned the light farm... It is just going to be very difficult to progress those weapons without some largescale changes...

One thing I think they really need to do is retroactively add things to Pagos and Anemos; Letting us farm light in Anemos (and Pyros, I assume we wont be able to at least) would be very helpful. Letting us use/farm Logos actions in Anemos and Pagos would be amazing. I know the two instances weren't balanced around those actions being there, but it'd act as a nice nerf to those stages (have we really seen nerfs at all to these relic stages yet?) if nothing else, and allow people to play around with that system despite being behind on the content. Both would be a good way to help people catch up IMO.

It would also have been good if they kept old instances more relevant somehow. I didn't like the addition of letting us buy Pazuzu feathers with crystals, to me that was an incredibly lazy "fix", I'd much rather have seen a system where Pazuzu feathers remain relevant even if you have every Anemos weapon; I'd rather trade Pazuzu feather for crystals, for example. Perhaps you could buy Pagos crystals with Pazuzu + Louhi drops. Perhaps use those drops as a currency to buy the rare gear/minion drops from the instances. Ideas like that, I think, would give people reason to keep doing the old instances for Pazuzu/Louhi at least. It's basically how they keep the 24 player raids alive after all, the tome upgrade item requires a drop from each instance, same concept could easily apply here. Personally I wouldn't even mind having design like that as part of the upgrade cycle, though I fully understand some people probably wouldn't want to need Pazuzu feathers + Louhi ice to continue upgrading. That special instance that'll be the finale of Eureka though? I really wouldn't mind if you can only enter after getting a NPC the drops from the 3 instances. To me that'd be a great way to maintain relevance for those instances; You need to go back and get Pazuzu feathers, Louhi ice and whatever the Pyros boss drops in order to enter the final instance. That'd either be the final nail that drives everyone away, or work in maintaining some relevance to the old zones, IMO. Anyone working on the final step would need to go back and fight Pazuzu and Louhi to progress, Anemos and Pagos shouldn't die out as a result.

[Tharnor]

Anyone working on the final step would need to go back and fight Pazuzu and Louhi to progress, Anemos and Pagos shouldn't die out as a result.

That will just make it so much worse that even more people will not even bother with it.

[Nalien]

That will just make it so much worse that even more people will not even bother with it.

I mean, I kinda said that myself, I'm just floating the idea. From what I've gathered the final instance is going to be a short dungeon like thing? Just figured it might need some padding, but I guess the final stage of a relic has always been an easy victory lap. Giving people a reason to return to the old instances doesn't strike me as a terrible concept though. As I said before, one of the issues with Eureka is it cannot sustain players interest and once people move on, the late comers are screwed, giving people a reason to return would help address that. It'll end up like Diadem otherwise. I don't really care what that reason is, but there should be one. I imagine the armor upgrades will probably fill that role, now that I think about it, but I'm not sure people will really care for those.

[Altera]

I prefer the old 1.0 version of getting Relic over Pagos

1.0, had to do Hamlet Defenses and get a high score for a coffer that had 1 item inside needed for relic, and you needed 3 from each Hamlet. Then there was the speedruns of Aurum Vale and Cutters Cry for a coffer to drop that also had item you needed.
It took so much time as if everyone wanted the item, you had to run AV 3 times for your own, and for the other 7 players in the group.

It was grindy, but at least it was more fun than Pagos where it is kill x mobs unlimited of times, get light etc and Gratz with Relic :/ And this cost so much development time to make so many new zones and mechanics for just 1 thing that cannot be also used for other content.
This Eureka is also just Diadem in a different skin and it still isn't fun.