Eureka is still ruined because of Pagos

[Matrinka]

I'm just sad that I utterly despise Pagos. I went in a few times, made it to level 21, and just haven't gone back in again. Nothing in there was fun for me. Mindless grinding isn't my thing. At least in Anemos I could be social and mix up the tedium with everyone else. This is the first relic I haven't earned and have no intention of earning because I hate the content tied to the relic. At this point, I don't even think we should CALL the weapon a relic - it is a Eureka weapon. I don't care if Geralt is making it to stay consistent with the previous relics' lore.

[Hyperia]

I'm just sad that I utterly despise Pagos. I went in a few times, made it to level 21, and just haven't gone back in again. Nothing in there was fun for me. Mindless grinding isn't my thing. At least in Anemos I could be social and mix up the tedium with everyone else. This is the first relic I haven't earned and have no intention of earning because I hate the content tied to the relic. At this point, I don't even think we should CALL the weapon a relic - it is a Eureka weapon. I don't care if Geralt is making it to stay consistent with the previous relics' lore.

Same feelings here, every time I think about Pagos now, it just makes me feel depressed that I won’t finish my relic. I used Anemos and challenge logs to get close to 35 and after trying for 6 hours last weekend in Pagos, I only got around 20 something crystals and 0.5 light. Getting to the numbers required to finish feel insurmountable now.

[Nihility]

Same feelings here, every time I think about Pagos now, it just makes me feel depressed that I won’t finish my relic. I used Anemos and challenge logs to get close to 35 and after trying for 6 hours last weekend in Pagos, I only got around 20 something crystals and 0.5 light. Getting to the numbers required to finish feel insurmountable now.

it is still really bad.
Spent a ridiculous amount of time in there getting to 35
then when they increased NM spawn rates spent a insane amount of time in there getting the 500 crystals collecting light the whole time
then spent a mind-numbing amount of time doing anubys or dragons trying to get light
then the light buff spent another 5 hours or so on dragons and getting any NM's that happened to show up

and still 14 light crystals from getting my first +2 weapon

and No furnishings, no cards, no boss drops, no /shiver, no anything

[Xau]

It still makes sense. By the time Pagos was released, everybody could have bought several i360 tome weapons

lmao, yeah, like you can gear all jobs whit capped tomes before the next gear tier, at best whit the weapon, you can get at max before the next tier 3 and half full sets whit the capped tome, whit the relics be more easy to obtain like on arr and hw, that could go up to 4 and half sets, because lets not forget what a tome weapon cost 1K of tomes, any past relic did costed capped tomes? only at the start of arr, only then, and they changed it as soon as they changed tomes on 2.2

This relic is not competitive and probably won't be till the very end of Stromblood, once the content has already been dealt with, which begs the question on why people are so adamant on obtaining it even when they don't like the content...

i wonder why you are adamant to defend a piece of content what is mediocre at best, is because you fear what the devs will hear the people who complains and make the next map way more forgiving or easier to pogress?(when in fact, there was people complaining about anemos, yet the devs didnt listend to anyone), or you fear what they place more avenues to get relics and so people don't do it as how they where forced to do it on pagos?, and so less people to play it whit as the way you love it?, as for me reason why i want it?, to not spend capped tomes on a weapon, on the past the relic weapon always was equal or better to primal weapons(which is true even now anyway) but because of how anoying and boring is to level and gring light, i haven't got one yet, something what i fully enjoyed(and i still do because i am still doing past relics at me own pace) on arr and hw, i loathe it on sb because of how badly developed is

getting no tome weapons allows me to almost fully gear whit current tomes another job(in time), yet i haven't been able(on 4.3) thanks to how anoying is to level up and get light on pagos and because of that i had to brought up multiple tome weapons, which they cost 1K tomes, which they take more than 2 weeks to collect per weapon, which that is more or less the time it did costed me to get a current relic at arr and hw when they where current(i mean as of each step individually, not as a whole), and i never needed to do something what the majority of the player base did, what on the case of the anima weapon was, farm the aetherochemical research facility like a madman, there was other avenues for obtaining tomestones, what i did use rather than the most popular(and eficient) one, i personally do not care much about eficiency meanwile i get pogression whit a relative ease, something what even as today, pagos strugles whit yet(geting a reasonable pogression)

yes, now is more easy to get light than ever in there, but moving around pagos bellow elvl 31 is still very anoying and frustrating(thanks to the 2 upper aetherites requiring elvl 30 and 31) and forcing any player who is bellow those levels walk prety much 3/4 of the map to go to the upper regions, and half of the time dying for any ridiculous reason, like, you go afk near a sleeping dragon, and you get agro just because you standed still in there, or because a blind mob turned around whit no warning and touched you and you got agro from that, or when a mob whit sight does sudenly turns around and you get agro, is anything but frustration in there to get some reliable pogression, and since there is no way to tell when the mobs will turn around, you tend to spend a unhealty amount of time waiting for them to turn around so you can pass them, i died way too oftem in pagos, i do complain because stealth doesn't blend well, plus the fact what prety much the mobs on pagos are set up to do damage what only tanks can endure and so if you are a dps or a healer you die on 2-4 hits at best if they don't outright kill you on the spot

[Reynhart]

i wonder why you are adamant to defend a piece of content what is mediocre at best

I'm defending it because most people I ran into on the forum only use fallacy to attack it.
"The majority hates it" No, it doesn't, unless you can show me significant numbers.
"I'm forced to do a content I dislike" No, you're not, you want to do it because you want the relic. Like you'd do with Savage, PvP or Deep Dungeon if you wanted the corresponding weapon. Blame yourself.
"Eureka is supposed to be for everyone" No, it's not, Yoshida said so at the very beginning.
"I've joined one instance on patch day and it was empty, so Pagos is completely dead" : No, it's not, there are still several full instances, and it's expected that people will focus on new content for patch day.
"I don't like it so it must be deleted so that we have another dungeon" : And what about people who like it and are bored of having the same dungeons since 5 years ?
etc, etc...


Apart from that, I really don't care if you like it or not, you just need to use proper arguments to do it.

[Nariel]

"The majority hates it" No, it doesn't, unless you can show me significant numbers.
"I'm forced to do a content I dislike" No, you're not, you want to do it because you want the relic. Like you'd do with Savage, PvP or Deep Dungeon if you wanted the corresponding weapon. Blame yourself.
"Eureka is supposed to be for everyone" No, it's not, Yoshida said so at the very beginning.
"I've joined one instance on patch day and it was empty, so Pagos is completely dead" : No, it's not, there are still several full instances, and it's expected that people will focus on new content for patch day.
"I don't like it so it must be deleted so that we have another dungeon" : And what about people who like it and are bored of having the same dungeons since 5 years ?
etc, etc...

The majority of people voicing an opinion about it hate it, its fact. Deal with it.

You are actualy forced to do it for your relic, its an optional content tied to another optional content to get the first you have to endure the last whithout any other choice. People started their relic collection long time ago, they sure are entitled to complain about putting an end to it for the sake of another content they sure hate. If the next expension relic was tied to a new PvP grind fest content people will complaing once again cause its a beloved content tied to a niche content.

Yeah, sure Eureka is a niche content for FFXI/old-schoolMMO fanboy who missed their 20th century grind-slog-fest so bad BUT the relic is not, its a casual way of obtaining a strong and sometime beautiful weapon with a bit of story, humor and a touch of lore, for anyone who want to put time in it... Can't you see the problem ? A WEAPON MEAN FOR EVERYONE TO A CONTENT MEAN FOR ALMOST NO-ONE.

As alredy stated, and you should really consider reading before posting the same debunked argument for the fouth time. Its a single full instance for a whole data center at prime time, its barely living and most people in it just want to get out ASAP with the less amout of eureka gameplay possible, so lively I could cry.

How about just put our relic out of it and see how many time it will take for "eureka lovers" or people who just don't care to complaign about how empty it is.

[Reynhart]

You are actualy forced to do it for your relic

But you're not forced to do the relic, so you're not forced to do Eureka.

BUT the relic is not

THAT relic is. Since it has been stated from the very beginning that Eureka wouldn't be the "content for everyone" and that "the relic would be tied to Eureka", even a preschool kid would be able to make that connection.

How about just put our relic out of it and see how many time it will take for "eureka lovers" or people who just don't care to complaign about how empty it is.

Sure, but, to do a proper test, let's remove gear from raids too, and let's see which one dies first, ok ?

[Bright-Flower]

Anemos I didn't mind so much, my main complaint there was that maybe they could have had a more interesting way of spawning NMs than grinding mobs, or sometimes grinding mobs that required certain weather/time of day. But all in all, it was a grind but a bearable one especially once challenge logs were out.

Pagos took the flawed but workable template of Anemos and, IMO, made it worse with a more annoying map design, fewer rewards and a lot more grinding.

Pagos' map has the annoying cliffs. Sleeping void dragons you have to tiptoe around. (This was cute the first time but gets old FAST.) That annoying ravine in the middle, aetherytes tuned too high etc. I just hate the map all around. Hopefully the Pyros map will be less annoying.

I also feel like relics alone don't justify Eureka's existance. In Anemos you could at least get some good gear via upgraded job armor. It wasn't a full set of gear but it was more than JUST weapons and cosmetic rewards. I hear Pyros might have more armor to earn, which will help to a degree. But I think that they could go a step further by letting you level alt jobs as well. Since the ilvl sync is so low already in Pagos, why not sync all jobs up to level 70 and make gear irrelevant like in deep dungeons, and let people get exp so Eureka serves a secondary purpose. Or like I said, at least make it a means to gear out fully.

And finally, the light grind. This felt excessive to me. It might be fixed now. I haven't gone back since the nerf, as I already finished my relic. In Aenmos, once I hit level cap it felt like I was in the 'end game' and just needed a bit more to get my weapon. In Pagos it felt like I hit level cap but the grind was only just starting.

If they fix these three things IMO Pyros could be alright. Though Eureka still has some fundamental flaws like the Magia board lacking depth.

[Lastelli]

And finally, the light grind. This felt excessive to me. It might be fixed now.

It's not. It can't be fixed because the very process is broken. The idea that people will kill mobs for hours for an rng chance at obtaining lights to ultimately get a ilvl 370 weapon is ridiculous. It can only work if the required amount of effort and time is extremely low (like "kill 100 lvl 36+ mobs and you're done!"). That's why anemos wasn't criticized so much. The content itself wasn't exactly fun, but at least you could create your own fun by being social and by the time you got to lvl 20 you had enough crystals for like 10 relic weapons. In such a case players may accept it and take the pill (namely mob/fate grinding...for the umpteenth time). But that's not because the content is fun, but because they covet the reward enough to go through a easy grind.

I'd personally argue that the very design of eureka is flawed and can only work if the grind is easy and as painless as possible, like in anemos case.

[Nariel]

But you're not forced to do the relic, so you're not forced to do Eureka.

THAT relic is. Since it has been stated from the very beginning that Eureka wouldn't be the "content for everyone" and that "the relic would be tied to Eureka", even a preschool kid would be able to make that connection.

Sure, but, to do a proper test, let's remove gear from raids too, and let's see which one dies first, ok ?

You clearly don't even understand what we are complaigning about, what a waste of brain cells.

Sure I'm not forced to do the relic, but the fact we are forced to do eureka to get it IS the problem, the whole point of Eureka isn't the relic, its Eureka itself. They put the relic in it to prevent its death and probably to don't bother doing a questline for the relic at all, its obvious cause Gerolt and the weapon aren't part of the progression and Krile have to remind us he's here, this relic weapon isn't mentionned even once in the storyline. You can finish Eureka storyline whithout even upgrade a single weapon in Anemos but yeah tell me again how Eureka and the relic are the same thing. The relic didn't need Eureka to exist and being done by a lot of player before, it worked well when it was outside of Eureka, when Eureka isn't good enough to survive without this weapon.
They are two separate thing so quit playing dumb for the sake of your white knighting. The whole point of the relic is tainted by Eureka and its another problem people have with Eureka.

Yeah cause so many people complaign about how they can't get high-end gear outside of raid.... OH WAIT !! They don't because its already possible and we call this tomestone.