Eureka is still ruined because of Pagos

[Reynhart]

IMO though, we should have multiple relic grinds.

This would be interesting, yes. To take inspiration from FFXI (Sorry), there were the Magian Weapons. A base weapon that you could upgrade with several tasks. The nice part is that you could choose what "path" this weapon would take. Do you want a pure physical weapon ? An elemental one ? A multi-hit one ? Etc...

Sure, one path eventually lead to the Empyreans that had very unique perks and were mathematially better than the other paths, but that's not a necessity. So, we can imagine a base weapon that you could uprade via a Tomestone path, a Primal path, a raid path, a Eureka path, etc...and each end result would be different. At that point if you specifically want the one final weapon from the content you don't like, well, too bad.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Well, yeah, it does...


Did they really ? Apart from the player deducted "old relics were casual and this relic is tied to Eureka therefore Eureka must be casual", was it ever said that Eureka would be casual ?

That quote merely states some people won't like Eureka, not the majority of the playerbase. They aren't going to spend 17 months conceptualizing and developing a whole new zone for only a fraction of people. In fact, the only reason Ultimate exists is because they could reuse virtually everything from existing assets.

It was heavily implied to be geared towards more casual players. Not necessarily in terms of skill, but something with less immediate commitment. That has always been how the relic operated. The whole purpose was to offer casual players a means of obtaining a power weapon outside Savage. You're now attempting revisionist history, comparing Eureka to Savage. Like I said, Savage serves two purposes: a challenge for raiders and the core template for normal mode. In that context, Alphascape caters to far more people. Eureka was supposed. It hasn't. And even if it were, people are still within their right to voice criticism, especially since outside Eureka Stormblood has virtually nothing to do unless you're a raider. Which only adds to the notion Eureka wast meant to fill that void. It failed spectacularly thus far.

Another factor upsetting people is the relic used to have multiple avenues of progression. Dungeons, Trials, Raids, Savage, Beast Tribes and PotD were all options. Eureka has precisely one path. Player choice was removed in the hopes they could avoid another Diadem disaster. You may find the preceding relic steps boring, but people find Eureka boring. Both opinions are that: opinions.

[Reynhart]

That has always been how the relic operated.

Past relics worked that way

The whole purpose was to offer casual players a means of obtaining a power weapon outside Savage.

Tome weapon fill that role since HW, it's time to move on, don't you think ?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Past relics worked that way

Tome weapon fill that role since HW, it's time to move on, don't you think ?

Not when the alternative is a mindless slog where I do nothing but kill brain dead mobs who do little more than auto-attack. And I need to kill them by the hundreds just to spawn the actual cool NM.

Indeed, relics used to work that way. And people widely prefer it to Eureka. You're just going to have to accept that.

[Reynhart]

Another factor upsetting people is the relic used to have multiple avenues of progression. Dungeons, Trials, Raids, Savage, Beast Tribes and PotD were all options.

Sorry, but "tomestone farming" is not "multiple avenues". Especially when almost all steps required tomestones.

Both opinions are that: opinions.

Yes, I found tome farming boring. My solution ? Don't do it. One find Eureka boring. The solution ? Burn it to the ground !

You're just going to have to accept that.

No, I don't have to accept the situation that you think should be when you can't accept the situation that the dev team decided it to be.

Everyone has easily access to a powerful weapon so that they can progress any content they want. That fact that some of them want that glowy weapon (that's not even competitive) is of no relevance whatsoever to how gear should be rewarded.

[Nestama]

SE will still need to give Eureka Pagos a huge nerf of sorts (ideas posted previous page) if they want people to enter Eureka Pyros, though. Otherwise they're looking at a Lord of Verminion situation (but on a greater scale, since it's a zone with new mechanics being made for it).

[Lastelli]

No, I don't have to accept the situation that you think should be when you can't accept the situation that the dev team decided it to be.

The dev team is not infallible. They almost destroyed the game back during 4.05 and they were forced to rethink a few things. Blindly defending the choices of the dev team without looking at the bigger picture (namely, unappealing content equals lost subscriptions which in turn equals a lower stream of revenues for them and ultimately less support for the game) is detrimental for the game. And considering what I witnessed in pagos (community toxicity and inactivity, since the vast majority of players in the instance basically waits for a NM to spawn, kill it and then wait for the next one) I'm fairly certain that this is not the kind of content that keeps the community interested and engaged. As a matter of fact, there's not a single member in my fc that could be bothered doing pagos except for me. Even fc members that obtained arr and hw relics in a few days.

But at this point I'm curious...considering how fervently you're defending this content, how many relics have you obtained until now?

[Reynhart]

The dev team is not infallible. They almost destroyed the game back during 4.05 and they were forced to rethink a few things. Blindly defending the choices of the dev team without looking at the bigger picture (namely, unappealing content equals lost subscriptions which in turn equals a lower stream of revenues for them and ultimately less support for the game) is detrimental for the game.

Yes, I'm the one not looking at the bigger picture, sure...not the ones considering that while 90% of the content is basically tome farming for the last 5 years, that it's a good thing that one content does something else, to not lose people that are bored of tome farming.

But at this point I'm curious...considering how fervently you're defending this content, how many relics have you obtained until now?

I have 3 Anemos full sets + 2 Anemos weapons and I'm in the middle of my first Pagos+1 (having only recently reached 35)....while having left the game the week after Pagos was released and not coming back until 4.4 because I had other games to play. Which means that I managed to level up to 35, grind 10 Light Crystals and 350 Pagos crystal in four weeks. Which is why I consider people that complains that "leveling is too hard, I can't access the Pagos train because it's too far away" plain lazy.

I probably won't do another Elemental weapon, because everything else in the game is just boring to me after the first clears and Eureka alone is not enough to value my subscription fee.

[ErryK]

Sorry, but "tomestone farming" is not "multiple avenues". Especially when almost all steps required tomestones.

Where do you get tomestones from? Almost everything.

Maps, hunts, duty roulette, raids. The only things you wouldn't get tomestones from are FATEs, gathering and crafting.

Yes, I found tome farming boring. My solution ? Don't do it. One find Eureka boring. The solution ? Burn it to the ground !

That's because Eureka is boring and is the only way to get your relic in SB. Like I mentioned earlier, you had multiple ways to get tomes, unlike in SB being forced to do Eureka and only Eureka.

No, I don't have to accept the situation that you think should be when you can't accept the situation that the dev team decided it to be.

I thought that's what feedback was for? :think:

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Sorry, but "tomestone farming" is not "multiple avenues". Especially when almost all steps required tomestones.

A different path to the same result is still a different path. Everything I listed may drop tomestones, however the content itself varies. Dun Scaith is quite different from Alexander Prime who is different from the Gnath. I get to choose how I want to obtain tomestones, and I can do so at my leisure. Eureka allows no such variance. You have only one static way of progressing. And you are beholden to others. Are there enough people doing Eureka when you have time to farm? No? Too bad. Guess you aren't farming. You're level 23? Such a shame we still have no party sync feature, thereby giving players a mere two levels ahead of you little reason to offer more than a passing glance. It says a lot when it took me less time progressing the Unidentifiable Anima step than Pagos.

Yes, I found tome farming boring. My solution ? Don't do it. One find Eureka boring. The solution ? Burn it to the ground !

People complained about Anima too. Your opinion is not an authority. If enough people criticise, then the content has done a piss poor job meeting customer satisfaction. People are allowed to voice their opinion, just as you are voicing yours. The only difference is you're in a distinct minority, and that seems to bother you.

No, I don't have to accept the situation that you think should be when you can't accept the situation that the dev team decided it to be.

Yes, you do. For the reasons stated above. You're welcome to voice your opinion but said opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. As Lastelli noted, the dev team isn't infallible. Just because they decided to change how the relic system worked doesn't mean we have to grin and bear it. Yoshida has outright asked for feedback. People are providing him precisely what he asked for... except it's overwhelmingly negative. If we said nothing at all, they have no means of improving future content, be it a revised Eureka or something else entirely. This is no different than people complaining Stormblood has lacked content overall, the gear progression system is stale or any other criticism they wish to bring forward. By your logic, we should all say nothing because how dare we question the developers.

No. I will voice how much I dislike Eureka. You are more than welcome to disagree, but I'll still post my criticism. Don't like that? Well, that's just too damn bad.

Which is why I consider people that complains that "leveling is too hard, I can't access the Pagos train because it's too far away" plain lazy.

No one has claimed Pagos hard. They've called it boring. Leveling is laughably easy as you just grind trash that does nothing. It's simply boring and disengaging for a lot of people. You happen to like it? Great. A lot of people don't. Deal with it.