Eureka is still ruined because of Pagos

[Tint]

Yeah, because they acknowledged that it was not for them and they moved on...same for PvP...or Deep Dungeon...
You don't see people complaining that Savage is the only way to get Savage gear, Deep Dungeon the only to get Deep Dungeon weapon, etc...Yet they can't accept that Eureka is the only way to get Eureka weapons...

The old relic appealed to the masses. The new relic with Eureka does not anymore. So they took away a long lasting, easy accessible and appealing activity from the game and replaced it with something wich only a tiny minority enjoys and is also not very accessible because of level penalty, long search for a matching party and the 3 hour timer (so you are stuck inside for a long time or have to leave the party wich likely will not find a replacement).

Of course people complain, because now the non-raiders have nothing to do anymore besides expert roulette and waiting for reset.

I bet the raiders would coplain too when you take away the raids and put the raid weapons in a different, badly designed content wich doesn't appeal to the players.

[Mutemutt]

Eh, I think Eureka is fine. I actually kinda like it. Hated all the previous relics because they would just send you to do the same old stuff you've already done (run through ancient dungeon content you've done dozens upon dozens of times before and such). Heck, I remember the relic of Heavensward spending lots of time being a glorified tome weapon. I feel that Eureka is different from the usual content of the game and I'm especially happy the relic isn't tied somehow to dungeons.

[Nestama]

Pagos is pretty much dead now (or seems to be on Primal). Entered it today and there were only 8 people in it. A friend entered it a few hours before me and she said there was only one other person in it.

I think it's time for SE to give Pagos a huge nerf to make it bearable. Sleeping Dragons no longer waking up from people running, click-ons that let people climb cliffs, lower the level requirement for the Aetherytes up north, remove the Hakutaku eyes being a requirement to get Gold on Hakutaku, make NM's spawn as often as Anemos (lower monster kill count?)... anything to make the zone itself friendly and so people can quickly make their way into Eureka Pyros (which I hope won't be a repeat of Pagos).

[Awful]

I'm especially happy the relic isn't tied somehow to dungeons.

I'd be happy if it was a full plate at least you can run dungeons and get ques rather quick Pagos is so dead you'll be lucky to have 5+ people in it and even then some of them are bots my friend was in a Pagos with 3 blms and 2 whms just /following each other running around doing movement that was calculated and in a set pattern. You know the content is dead and bad when bots are starting to take over I'd rather do dungeons then at least I can do something then mindlessly grind the same mobs and pray to RNG that I might get somewhere, not to mention this content was supposed to be something amazing which it didn't.

This is the only expansion that i'm not doing relic, none of them look good to me, none of the ways to farm them are effective or fun it's honestly insulting that this content exists, and I mean if you like it hey more power to you but I can't see any good in Diadem 3.0. I feel like all we're getting is sides and we're just never full it's an empty plate of content meant to feed you until the next xpac rolls around.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Sure, it got what...one slide at the SB FanFests ? BIG selling point. Fun fact, the companion app received more focus than Eureka throughout the different Live Letters.

As did everything else. Eureka has was the focal point of numerous interviewers, frequently touted as a major addition feature and outright described as a "theme park" attraction. Does any of this give the impression Yoshida only anticipated a minority audience for Eureka? You keep comparing it against Savage yet Savage has a normal mode equivalent where more than half the mechanics already exist but simply deal more damage, come out more quickly and etc. Therefore, they aren't creating much in the way of new content outside the final boss. Eureka, meanwhile is an entire new zone—a massive one at that. And likewise, they didn't just put any ole mount and minion but among the most popular items the game offers. They wanted Eureka to be casual content that players could hop in and out of at their leisure. They more or less said as much.

You're welcome to enjoy Eureka. Respect the fact a large number of people don't. They have just as much a right to voice their criticism as you do your praise.

[Mutemutt]

I'd be happy if it was a full plate at least you can run dungeons and get ques rather quick Pagos is so dead you'll be lucky to have 5+ people in it and even then some of them are bots my friend was in a Pagos with 3 blms and 2 whms just /following each other running around doing movement that was calculated and in a set pattern. You know the content is dead and bad when bots are starting to take over I'd rather do dungeons then at least I can do something then mindlessly grind the same mobs and pray to RNG that I might get somewhere, not to mention this content was supposed to be something amazing which it didn't.

This is the only expansion that i'm not doing relic, none of them look good to me, none of the ways to farm them are effective or fun it's honestly insulting that this content exists, and I mean if you like it hey more power to you but I can't see any good in Diadem 3.0. I feel like all we're getting is sides and we're just never full it's an empty plate of content meant to feed you until the next xpac rolls around.

I went into pagos today in the middle of the day on a weekday and it had like 100 people easy. I often have more trouble trying to queue for a raid roulette than I have finding people in pagos. This is the only expansion that I've really had an interest in doing the relic while it was still current. If you like dungeons, more power to you, but dungeons have literally put me to sleep on more than a few occasions and once you've seen one, you've seen them all. Relics have pretty much always had RNG at one step or another, the previous versions being much worse in that they had the whole atma thing, and dungeons are mindless mob grinds as well (lest you forget that bots do dungeons all the time).

[Awful]

Snip.

I agree that most dungeons do put you to sleep but at least there's progression, you can at least do the Atma step in HW by yourself in the FATEs what I'm trying to say is that you can't do Pagos alone and even if there is people in there (when I que at night there's no one) they don't wanna do the lower level stuff as they don't wanna go back to help lower levels since it doesn't benefit them as much. I find that surprising that Primal has over 100 people in 1 instance as it's never happened to me it's usually empty guess i'm queing at the wrong time.

Even if you do the dungeons in HW content you can undersize them you can't undersize Eureka or speed it up it is what it is and you can't speed it up unless people come into your group or there's a lot of people I ran dungeons and had PFs up for light farming for A1S and it wasn't bad at all. Most of the playerbase knows the longevity of Eureka is at an all time low which is a shame I was looking forward to it but I can't defend it, it's flawed it's not fun and I've exhausted a lot of time in FFXIV trying to find what I find fun and I thought Eureka was going to be it because it was something i seriously wanted to do with my FC.

In the end after SB Eureka will just fall into content like Lords of Verminion and half of the other content that people have forgotten but the main issue here is they worked on it and even delayed it and what we got was something that passes for side content that's not casual or time sensitive content, i.e people who can only log on for a limited amount of time with the challenge log.

[Reynhart]

Does any of this give the impression Yoshida only anticipated a minority audience for Eureka?

Well, yeah, it does...

Y: I usually compare FFXIV with a theme park, but the Forbidden Land of Eureka won’t be a place where everyone would want to go. For example, there are people who don’t want to go to horror houses because they don’t see the point in getting scared on purpose. For example, on a date, the boyfriend might want to invite the girlfriend to go the horror house, but the girlfriend just doesn’t seem to find it fun. In other words, it’s not like everyone wants to go to the horror house, but there are people who just love the adrenalin rush they get from it. Think of Eureka as something like that.

They wanted Eureka to be casual content that players could hop in and out of at their leisure. They more or less said as much.

Did they really ? Apart from the player deducted "old relics were casual and this relic is tied to Eureka therefore Eureka must be casual", was it ever said that Eureka would be casual ?

[Nalien]

The old relic appealed to the masses.

This is why XIV needs multiple pieces of relic content IMO. I'm not a fan of the Anima weapons due to how little effort they required, and what little effort they did require usually involved doing old content... I basically got those relics off ARR beast tribe dailies and Frontlines, it was a very boring process. On paper I much prefer Eureka, but the execution is rubbish, it was meant to be something new and different, yet here we are doing FATEs and farming Light. ARR relics had parts that were great IMO, the 4 quests to get parts to create the Zodiak weapon, for example, but it still had a lot of flaws. Was nice that each ARR relic had a story that made them feel like relics as well... HW and SB are just Gerolt forging new weapons, rather than us restoring/recreating legendary weapons with any kind of history.

IMO though, we should have multiple relic grinds. There should be a "Do leveling roulette 100 times" relics, and "Do this alternative content relics", crafting relics where you forge your own super weapon (and can't sell it, of course) would be amazing too IMO, still tie it to the same sort of stuff (do a dungeon to get a key item to craft with) but that would be amazing crafting content to add, I'm tired of having a drunkard forge all my weapons. I'd even be more interested in trials and raids if it were a case of upgrading equipment, rather than a new patch coming out and just trashing the old gear. ARR had those Primal Focus weapons, I was always sad that they never got any kind of upgrade process like relics, just off extreme/raid content instead of the casual process we got for ARR relics...

I'd say it'd be a lot better to have multiple options like that, and people can focus on the one they enjoy the most, than to have a single hit-or-miss relic series. Would require more development resources of course, but hey, we're already probably only getting half a dungeon per patch in 5.0, maybe for once they can actually reallocate those resources in a way that doesn't anger people...

[Alleo]

That source speaks of "new challenge", "hardcore content that you can challenge with four players"
So basically, nothing precisely like Eureka or Ultimate. You chose to arbitraty put the blame on Eureka and ignore the part that Ultimate could have played in that. For me the "hardcore part" is much closer than Ultimate, but since it's only a hypothesis, I'd say that both are part of it.

Thanks for the link. Its interesting that he speaks of hardcore things for four players yet we still dont have something like that in the game (minus the monster hunter fight but that was a promotion). So either they have changed that or it was just a fake promise of something more to come that they never delivered. Well I hope that they wont have even less dungeons in the next expansion..because if a game grows then we should get more content not less.

Eh, I think Eureka is fine. I actually kinda like it. Hated all the previous relics because they would just send you to do the same old stuff you've already done (run through ancient dungeon content you've done dozens upon dozens of times before and such). Heck, I remember the relic of Heavensward spending lots of time being a glorified tome weapon. I feel that Eureka is different from the usual content of the game and I'm especially happy the relic isn't tied somehow to dungeons.

Variety would be nice. For example release Eureka with lots of different content in it, where the relic weapon is just one part of it and also give us a second option to get the things so that people that dont like Eureka could get it the old way and others that do like Eureka could go in there. Also if there were others things to do in this, instead of just killing x amount of the same monsters for hours, people might have liked it more thus the content might stay relevant for more than SB. They could have for example used it as a testing ground for Hamlet Defense. So much they could have done, and then you see what we got x)..its sad.