Eureka is still ruined because of Pagos

[Vahlnir]

Fine, here are your numbers, compiled by counting the numbers of players in the first 5 pages of this thread that criticized Pagos vs the players who defended it. This thread serves as a microcosm of the playerbase's opinion of Pagos as a whole.



Complained About Pagos [First 5 Pages of this thread]: 27
Dragoon4life
MicahZerrshia
Fawkes
Altera
SigmaOZ
Edax
Dragon_punch
Taebok
Bourne_Endeavor
Ryaz
Ash_
Gun-Cat
Kewitt
Vahlnir
Azper
Rhindas
Burningskull
TheMightyMollusk
Hyperia
Deceptus
DamianFatale
Xau
LalafellDown
Berteaux_Braumegain
Tyverus
Alleo
Cidel



Defended Pagos [First 5 Pages of this thread]: 3
Nixxe
Bright-Flower
Reynhart

Yeah. We might not be a "majority" of the player base here, but there's way more than enough of us (and there's way more than those listed here) to say "hey, there might actually be an issue here".

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yeah. We might not be a "majority" of the player base here, but there's way more than enough of us (and there's way more than those listed here) to say "hey, there might actually be an issue here".

People like to dismiss opinions online because "you're just a fraction of the community!" Which is fair because it tends to work out that way. The exception is when said opinions are entirely lop-sided. When the overwhelming majority of opinions online range from apathetic to outright critical, they often reflect a silent majority of player perception. Look no further than Mass Effect 3. IGN and BioWare did everything they could to deflect the outrage regarding its ending as "just people upset online." That 93% disapproval rating from a poll of over 100,000 people didn't mean anything. Funny how Amazon actually allowed free returns because they were getting bombarded with complaints, and EA themselves finally caved by releasing an Extended Cut DLC to address some of the criticism. That doesn't happen if those online opinions were just a fraction of your playerbase.

Star Wars: Battlefront II is a more recent example. EA lost millions stubbornly insisting it was just angry redditors whining.

Rounding this back to FFXIV. Yoshida has outright said Pyros will be closer to Anemos in terms of its evolution. If that doesn't put the final nail in Pagos' coffin, I don't know what will. The devs have all but given up trying to push Pagos. People hated that much.

I think Anemos back when was half-and-half when it came to people defending it and criticising it (I defended it because it was something new that SE could expand on with Pagos. They didn't). Pagos definitely has more people criticising it, especially from people (like myself) who found Anemos to be decent.

I frequently said Anemos had a decent foundation even if I found it a bit too basic. Nothing earth-shattering by any means, however it could easily have been improved on. Instead, the devs almost seemed annoyed we weren't chaining mobs, thus they enforced it as the only option. Considering even JP hated this, it backfired, hard.

Sure, but, to do a proper test, let's remove gear from raids too, and let's see which one dies first, ok ?

As per usual, you're erecting Strawmen. A better comparison would be putting a newly designed weapon but not the relic in Eureka. For argument's sake, let's say the Diamond weapons were Eureka locked while Omega weapons stay in Savage. In this scenario, Eureka dies, instantly. The relic is what keeps it alive because it's a highly coveted progression reward intended for more casual players that was locked behind niche content. As Nariel said, would your argument stay the same if the relic were moved to PvP? What if you needed eight clears of O12S or even Ultimate? Is that good design? Should people just accept it and elect not to have a relic this expansion?

Speaking of Savage. You like to throw around fallacies yet this is one itself. Savage has an alternative: tomestones. You aren't required to beat O12S for your i400 gear. Likewise, the reward structure is intended more for longevity. People will still do Savage and Ultimate without rewards. They just won't bother more than a couple times since there isn't a point.