A little scared of the future

[van_arn]

Stop being bad or quit.

If you don't want to improve, you've already quit.

[Sylvina]

Stop being bad or quit.

If you don't want to improve, you've already quit.

How toxic. You have zero right to tell people to quit regardless of their level of skill. If someone does NOT want to improve (WHY THOUGH!!) that's really on them and it's not your job to be a jerk about it.

[TaiyoShikasu]

How toxic. You have zero right to tell people to quit regardless of their level of skill. If someone does NOT want to improve (WHY THOUGH!!) that's really on them and it's not your job to be a jerk about it.

He's not wrong though. Pity the party of anyone who is not only bad, but makes no effort to get not bad.

Nearly 1800 page thread about DF and reading through them and how bad people are, you wonder how they can be so bad and somehow find joy in this game when they are a burden on every party they encounter.

[Sylvina]

He's not wrong though. Pity the party of anyone who is not only bad, but makes no effort to get not bad.

Nearly 1800 page thread about DF and reading through them and how bad people are, you wonder how they can be so bad and somehow find joy in this game when they are a burden on every party they encounter.

Doesn't give anyone the right to tell other people they can't play a game they enjoy.

[Lauront]

Doesn't give anyone the right to tell other people they can't play a game they enjoy.

They can do so at someone else's expense. Not mine.

[Lauront]

How toxic. You have zero right to tell people to quit regardless of their level of skill. If someone does NOT want to improve (WHY THOUGH!!) that's really on them and it's not your job to be a jerk about it.

Well it's not your job to carry them, either. If people can't keep up and don't listen to feedback, "hit the pavement" seems like the right approach.

[Sylvina]

Well it's not your job to carry them, either. If people can't keep up and don't listen to feedback, "hit the pavement" seems like the right approach.

Fair enough but telling other players to quit the game or that the games only for people who are "good" is arrogant, toxic, and disgusts me. You have no obligation to carry other players in the game but insisting others QUIT entirely is the kind of behavior which destroyed WoW's community.

[van_arn]

Fair enough but telling other players to quit the game or that the games only for people who are "good" is arrogant, toxic, and disgusts me. You have no obligation to carry other players in the game but insisting others QUIT entirely is the kind of behavior which destroyed WoW's community.

Sylvina-san. You read, but you fail to comprehend.

If someone no longer wants to improve, they have already quit.

I stroke my magnificent silky white goatee.

The "You don't pay my sub" arguement works both ways tbh.

"Neither do you pay mine, so why should I have to deal with your ****?"

Hmm.

Then don't pug. and don't queue with such people. You'll NEVER have the right to insist they dont play. ever.

You don't pay my sub.

I have to agree with this if you hate randoms so much why even pug? If they put themselves out there then they are the only ones to blame if they meet others not on their own skill level.

You, also, don't pay my sub. The simple fact of the matter is it's not worth doing a PF for a daily -- merely bring a friend along (which you should do anyway to queueboost a dps buddy) so you can fix any vote kicks, and you then have the authority to weed out whomever you wish for whatever reason you wish -- as long as it's covered by "playstyle differences."

I suppose you could go on a grand crusade where you kick anyone that is even moderately critical of the performance of the party, but pfft-- nobody's gonna do that. Let alone go along with a kooky desire to kick the players telling the icemage they can do better post-Stormblood. If anything at all came of it, you'd get booted for being a busybody by a votefixing duo.

Well the vault is nerfed so hard now that you can even do that when you sleep, but i don't really understand the issues people have and had in the burn or the vault.
Is it a bit more challenging? Yes. Is it to hard? Hell no!

The common thread between the two dungeons is terrible healers have an especially bad time, which is only compounded when other roles don't know their buttons. This is perfectly fine, as anyone able to even make it to either dungeon has had more than enough time to read their tooltips.

There's a minor excuse to be had with skips in the vault (though they should be kicked so they can read their tooltips), but even that flimsy justification just doesn't apply to the Burn.

Simply put, any healer that can't heal through the Burn needs to be sent back to Bardham's Mettle, Doma Castle, Ala Mhigo, and Castrum for remedial lessons. Other roles can pick up some things from those dungeons, as well, but the healer in particular has things to learn in each of those. This includes people that afk leveled through HOH or lower level roulettes; if you level something to 70 and didn't bother to learn anything as you went, or perhaps alt-geared it to get past the ilvl gate, I'll relish a vote in favor of kicking you if you don't perform the baseline in anything gated post-stormblood.

You have no obligation to carry other players in the game but insisting others QUIT entirely is the kind of behavior which destroyed WoW's community.

And incessant mollycoddling of players four patches into Stormblood that haven't learned even the basics they were expected to know before they even hit Praetorium have done an awful lot to make this particular brand of toxicity (as quoted) insufferable in the equal and opposite way. I don't expect the icemage to hit Savage-tier damage in the Burn, I expect -- and by fixed votekick, demand -- them to have a baseline degree of competence with their class.

They are free to play how they like by themselves in solo content, even icemage. Just not with players in post-Stormblood content. If players expect me to tolerate them in post-Stormblood content when they can't be bothered to even read their tooltips, I genuinely positively absolutely seriously beg them to uninstall. Because they quit a long time ago, ignored a hundred lessons along the way, have no fire to improve, and it's unhealthy for them to continue playing; not to mention unhealthy for the community as a whole to tolerate such indifference to three other peoples' time.

If they, instead, would ask me for any sort of guidance outside of said content I will bend over backwards, to my limited ability, to offer guidance. But if they show up in the Burn wholly unprepared, they need to hit the pavement.

[Ifrinne]

Surprising. The conversation seems to have now polarized on how to do the burn dungeon. While that wasnt even the point perse. A cause, yes. Aint it best to just let this one be and make a new thread on the burn specifically?

[KittyPr]

I never do savage/X stuff ... i only did the poneys during HW and the HW birds during SB ....and Alex1S for the HW relic .
Some things in this game are unnecessarily difficult , like the Stormblood quest ( shinryu ) or the 4.3 primal , in fact even 1 year after you are almost sure to fail the first try if you have Susano in the trial roulette ....

But these threads have to stop , the burn IS NOT hard at all ... it has the same difficulty than Aurum Vale / The Vault , and the mog dungeon in HW -i forgot the name .
Even the previous expert roulette , with The Swallow's Compass was harder than this one , during 4.3 i got my tomestones in Eureka / Hunts / HoH to don't have to bother with it .