How can we get more in depth character customization?

[MageBlack]

And Final Fantasy has had horizontal gear progression since... when, exactly? By the end of each game I tend to have all the characters in the best possible equipment I can get my hands on, aka the one with the highest stats... and that's if the game even HAS equipment considering a lot of the games also limit you to changing your weapon and accessory only.

There are many ways to do horizontal progression, its not always gear centric. Look at FFIX, sometimes you were required to use a shitty weapon just to learn the skill you wanted off of it. Look at FFVII there was crappier gear that had better materia slots in the configuration you were looking for. Look at FFVI there were whole characters that were optional that could optimize your party. They have 14 other main installments plus all the spinoff games to draw inspiration from and This was the best they came up with?

[MageBlack]

Some great comments but I'm seeing a common criticism that I wanted to bring up.

Yeah, I know more options doesnt actually mean "more options" because of the hive mind MMO players, or gamers in general, seem to gravitate towards. I see more options as no better or worse than having an in-game parser BUT I did present several different ways of getting a similar result. Almost all of you only commented on the most complicated one that would require a hard reset on a lot of the current game mechanics, That would be something only feasible if we had another calamity and had a realm reborn reborn!

There were two different styles I brought up that could work in the current systems like the split class/job/role they did with Arcanist/Summoner/Scholar. I know the devs whined that it was too much work but I could see this FFXIV's version of a talent tree, a job stone for that weapon which gives you a different role/playstyle. A change like that would only happen in increments though unless it was the whole focus of an entire expansion and I'm also aware that, even if they started working on it today, we wouldnt see it until maybe 7.0

So aside from the excuses presented by the devs, what would you guys think of that as a customization solution?

[Shurrikhan]

Some great comments but I'm seeing a common criticism that I wanted to bring up.

Yeah, I know more options doesnt actually mean "more options" because of the hive mind MMO players, or gamers in general, seem to gravitate towards. I see more options as no better or worse than having an in-game parser BUT I did present several different ways of getting a similar result. Almost all of you only commented on the most complicated one that would require a hard reset on a lot of the current game mechanics, That would be something only feasible if we had another calamity and had a realm reborn reborn!

There were two different styles I brought up that could work in the current systems like the split class/job/role they did with Arcanist/Summoner/Scholar. I know the devs whined that it was too much work but I could see this FFXIV's version of a talent tree, a job stone for that weapon which gives you a different role/playstyle. A change like that would only happen in increments though unless it was the whole focus of an entire expansion and I'm also aware that, even if they started working on it today, we wouldnt see it until maybe 7.0

So aside from the excuses presented by the devs, what would you guys think of that as a customization solution?

It certainly seems a more sensible avenue into customization, if such is ever necessary. I personally see Monk and Dancer as almost equally tied to the Pugilist school of combat, for instance, but, we could also go further by, say, allowing cross-class in a real capacity again, such that Dancer could choose to build more off Pugilist, Lancer, Rogue, or Conjurer.

Even believing as I do that customization is fundamentally reductive, I still think such a system would be worthwhile just for the immersion it could bring... provided it came with the appropriate mutations to support it.

But, customization will always be an RPG element to me. Outside of the 4-skill restriction of MOBAs, it merely cuts down what would have allowed simultaneously and fluidly available variety of play into a variety of menu selections and fewer actual gameplay choices. I like it my RPGs, but... XIV can scarcely be called one, if at all.

[Bahati]

Not to be controversial, but can anyone familiar with WoW explain how they manage class customization yet the same would not work in FFXIV? Or do WoW players push meta and all run the same specs anyway? Are the dungeons/encounters very different than FFXIV so that is why it works? I hear these two games compared constantly and wondered if I might have some perspective as to why FFXIV is so limited when apparently every other MMO has more class diversity.

[Ameela]

Not to be controversial, but can anyone familiar with WoW explain how they manage class customization yet the same would not work in FFXIV? Or do WoW players push meta and all run the same specs anyway? Are the dungeons/encounters very different than FFXIV so that is why it works? I hear these two games compared constantly and wondered if I might have some perspective as to why FFXIV is so limited when apparently every other MMO has more class diversity.

Because WoW isn't worried about making the game fair for everyone, not every spec can clear every raid but every spec tends to have a use even if it's outside of PvE.
And perhaps more importantly none of the specs in WoW have 3-minute 20-button rotations so they're easier to balance and design with customisation in mind.

Look at FFVII there was crappier gear that had better materia slots in the configuration you were looking for.

You mean exactly what XIV does with crafted gear being able to be pentamelded?

[Rysir]

You mean exactly what XIV does with crafted gear being able to be pentamelded?

Not comparable, 7's materia is vastly superior to 14's as it directly gave spells and abilities so when you chose gear for a massive materia slot list you are giving yourself greater coverage and magical power at the cost of weapon power or physical defense.

14 offers no such thing.

[Ameela]

Not comparable, 7's materia is vastly superior to 14's as it directly gave spells and abilities so when you chose gear for a massive materia slot list you are giving yourself greater coverage and magical power at the cost of weapon power or physical defense.

14 offers no such thing.

Unfortunately you can't really do what VII did in a game like XIV. Imagine if tanks needed to equip specific gear or materia to get Rampart lol

[Rysir]

Unfortunately you can't really do what VII did in a game like XIV. Imagine if tanks needed to equip specific gear or materia to get Rampart lol

Being honest, if this game had 7's materia everyone and their dog would be using monster skill materia then pad it with any other materia of their choice. Every job would be part bluemage!

[MageBlack]

You mean exactly what XIV does with crafted gear being able to be pentamelded?

Except materia if functionally pointless in this game compared to FFVII. Can you learn a new spell? Gain a new summon? Enhance a skill?

[Ameela]

Except materia if functionally pointless in this game compared to FFVII. Can you learn a new spell? Gain a new summon? Enhance a skill?

And good thing it isn't because the materia system in VII made every character essentially indistinguishable aside from their limit breaks, you don't want that in an MMO.

I much prefer the way XIV handles materia and how you can customise your stats to your liking.